If you ever dated a jerk, you know that people are quick to tell you to “dump his sorry ass.”
But if a family member is mistreating you, they say: “Just brush it off.”
It’s even worse when grandparents are involved.
As a culture, we place importance on having an extended family, and grandparents are a big part of that. So they are often perceived as harmless old folks who love to spoil their grandkids.
But toxic grandparents are not harmless.
They are manipulative, controlling, self-serving individuals who can do a lot of damage if not kept in check.
Here are 10 signs that you might be dealing with a difficult grandparent.
1. Undermining You As a Parent
When it comes to food restrictions, bedtime, screen time, or any other rules you have for your child, a toxic grandparent doesn’t accept your parental authority.
In their eyes, since they have seniority and experience raising children, they always know best, and no one can tell them otherwise.
This type of behavior is a breach of trust and one of the things grandparents should never do.
“The grandparent’s role is not to challenge but to fit in with the family culture,” says J. Lane Tanner, M.D., at the University of California-San Francisco. “Parents delegate authority to the grandparent, not the other way around.”
2. Denying Having Made Any Parenting Mistakes
Whenever you bring up painful moments from your childhood, the grandparent gaslights you by saying: “I don’t remember that,” or “You always exaggerate!”
Quite simply, the grandparent is incapable of reflecting on their flaws and wrongdoings. They believe they were a great parent and that the issue is with you.
People who can’t admit fault can’t learn from their mistakes.
So when a parent refuses to acknowledge any parenting missteps or regrets, it’s a red flag for a problematic grandparent.
Just as they deny having made any mistakes as a parent, they will deny any lapses in judgment as a grandparent.
I have had a personal experience with a grandmother overfeeding a grandchild to the point of constipation, and then denying any responsibility when confronted. She simply didn’t see how it was her fault.
This is an example of how the toxic grandparent can harm a child, and still think that they’ve done nothing wrong.
3. Feeling Entitled to Time With the Grandchildren
The toxic grandparent feels like you owe them time with their grandchildren.
If they don’t get that time for whatever reason, they’ll accuse you of using your kid to hurt them.
They will go as far as demanding time with your kid ONLY, trying to bypass you and take control of the situation. If that doesn’t work, they’ll enlist relatives to harass you on their behalf.
In extreme cases, a toxic grandparent will sue you for visitation rights, or even for full custody of your kids.
They will stop at nothing to get what they believe they’re entitled to.
And it has nothing to do with love for the grandchildren. It’s about control and punishment.
They want to punish you for denying them time with the grandkids, and they don’t care that their actions are going to hurt those same kids they profess to love so dearly.
4. Playing the Victim
A toxic grandparent is someone with an over-inflated ego and a lack of empathy for other people’s feelings. That includes people closest to them — their family.
Even the slightest disagreement can be perceived as an attack, and all of a sudden grandma is “sick,” or grandpa is having “chest pains.”
This is very intentional.
They aim to elicit sympathy and to remind everyone – kids and grandkids – that things need to be going their way, or else.
Playing the victim accomplishes that while allowing them to evade any responsibility for their actions.
5. Trying to Buy the Grandkids’ Love With Gifts
It’s normal for grandparents to want to spoil their grandkids.
Many grandparents find joy in buying gifts for the grandchild, cooking them delicious meals, treating them to an extra cookie, letting them stay up past bedtime…That’s why children tend to adore their grandparents.
But to some grannies, gift-giving is a calculated chess game designed to buy their grandchildren’s love.
If your parent or in-law
- showers your kid with toys (clothes, sweets)
- tries to outshine you around the holidays
- doesn’t ask your permission before purchasing something big (like an iPhone or a pet)
they’re exhibiting passive-aggressive toxic behavior.
As strange as it may seem, too many gifts can be a bad thing. Not only is it manipulative, but it also teaches the kids to be spoiled and materialistic.
Excessive gift-giving, especially when one child gets better gifts than others, sends the message that gifts equal love.
If a grandparent engages in this type of excessive or selective gift-giving, it’s not good for anyone.
6. Manipulating to Get What They Want
- “You only have one mother (father).”
- “I’ve sacrificed everything for you.”
- “Don’t bother coming to my funeral.”
If your parent ever told you one of these gems, chances are, they won’t be much different as a grandparent.
They’ll be just as manipulative with your children.
It might sound something like:
- “Kiss (hug) me or I’ll cry”
- “I guess you don’t love me then.”
- “Come visit me or no Christmas presents.”
Children are a perfect target for a manipulator because they’re so innocent and trusting. As a result, they may internalize guilt or shame the grandparent is trying to use to manipulate them.
So be vigilant when the grandparent is trying to play on your child’s emotions. It’s not as harmless as it sounds.
7. Meddling in Your Parenting Choices
Most grandparents are capable of distinguishing between grandparenting and parenting roles.
But a toxic grandparent wants to get involved in every decision that concerns the grandkids.
They want to tell you how they should be fed, what daycare they should go to, whether or not they should be circumcised, how they should be punished etc.
Some overzealous grandmothers will even push their way into the delivery room and tell you what to name your child! True story.
Another fairly common meddling behavior is when the grandparent wants to name the grandchild.
They may be upfront and pushy about it or drop passive-aggressive hints about “great-grandpa Bill” or some other “good family names.”
Grandparents! Please stop doing this. Only offer your opinion on names if you’re specifically asked.
8. Playing Favorites With the Grandkids
Does your parent (or in-law) have a habit of comparing the grandchildren, and granting affection to the selected “winner” of the family?
Chances are, they’ve done that as parents, too.
Assigning roles like “golden child” and “scapegoat” to their children is a well-known dynamic in families with a narcissistic parent.
This practice is cruel and harmful to children’s self-esteem and emotional well-being.
9. Wanting to Be “Grandparent #1”
To a toxic grandparent, other grandparents are unimportant or non-existent. All the holidays and special events should be at their house, or else.
If the other set of grandparents had some quality time with the kids, they act jealous and hurt.
They expect preferential treatment and public displays of gratitude for every little thing they do for the child.
They also want to be invited to every family vacation, dinner, and other events the parents might prefer to enjoy with friends or alone with their kids.
Even if they don’t get the invite, they have no problem crashing the party.
A toxic grandparent also aims to be your kids’ favorite person so that they can take control of their hearts and minds.
They may encourage your kids to keep secrets from you or to lie to you.
Particularly venomous grannies will tell them demeaning things about you with the ultimate purpose of turning your kids against you.
10. Telling Your Child Critical or Hurtful Things
Toxic grandparents may love their grandchildren. They may mean them no harm. But they can’t help who they are.
They’re critical, judgmental, and manipulative people. And in their mind, when they’re criticizing someone, they’re “helping” them become better.
Eventually, they will expose their grandchildren to the same toxicity you and your partner are so familiar with.
Except adults have defenses to deal with toxic people; kids don’t. Their psyches are fragile and impressionable.
Even occasional comments can become their inner voice, which can lead to confusion, anxiety, depression, psychosomatic illnesses, and other serious issues.
How to Deal With a Toxic Grandparent
No grandparent is perfect. Hell, nobody is perfect!
It’s normal for grandparents to exhibit meddling tendencies or to want to spoil the grandkids. It comes from love — usually.
But we’re not talking about regular folks here. We’re talking about toxic people, not grandma who occasionally sneaks your child a cookie.
Toxic (or narcissistic) people have severe emotional deficits that produce an entirely egocentric worldview.
To them people are tools, and that includes children. They’re a means to an end. And because kids are so innocent and trusting, they’re easy prey for a manipulator.
That’s why toxic grandparents are dangerous.
Their controlling, selfish behaviors are systematic and almost entirely unconscious. They simply don’t believe they’re doing anything wrong.
And if that comes from someone who has a track record of being an abusive parent, you have to be extra vigilant about allowing them near your child.
When No Contact Is the Only Solution
When the toxic grandparent is hurting your child (emotionally or otherwise) and refuses to acknowledge the harm and/or stop, cutting ties with them may be your only option.
As painful as it is, no contact with a toxic family member is the only sure way to stop the abuse, for good.
Here’s a detailed guide on how to go no contact with a toxic grandparent, step-by-step: Going No Contact with a Narcissistic Grandmother
It won’t be easy. Cutting ties with your parent (or your partner’s parent) can dismantle the whole family unit and turn people against you.
It can also upset your kids. Children are typically attached to their grandparents despite their personal qualities.
Sometimes a child will even take the grandparent’s side and blame the parent for the loss of the relationship.
In these types of cases, the child most certainly had been “groomed” by a narcissistic grandmother or grandfather.
“Grooming” is when an adult builds an emotional connection with a child with selfish or nefarious intentions.
Before You Go No Contact
No contact is a serious decision that will likely have a ripple effect on the entire family.
So make sure that you’ve exhausted all other options before cutting ties permanently.
Have you made every attempt to communicate?
Did you make a difficult grandparent aware of how their actions affect you and your children?
Have you tried setting boundaries?
What about limited or supervised contact?
As cynical as it sounds, supervised contact can work for families who only see their unruly grandparents a few times a year.
But if all else fails, and you believe that contact with the grandparent is damaging to your child, let them go.
And don’t let anyone make you feel guilty about this.
You must protect your children from any harm that comes their way. Even someone who’s supposed to love and care for them.
Want to know more about toxic grandparents? I’ve written an eBook on the subject. It describes 5 types of challenging grandparents — Controlling, Narcissistic, Angry, Indifferent, and Inappropriate — and how to deal with each type.
References
Apter, T. (2012). Difficult Mothers: Understanding and Overcoming Their Power. W.W. Norton & Company.
Brown, N. W. (2015). Children of the Aging Self-Absorbed: A Guide to Coping with Difficult, Narcissistic Parents & Grandparents. New Harbinger Publications.
Davenport, G. (2006). Working with Toxic Older Adults: A Guide to Coping With Difficult Elders. Springer Publishing Company.
Sarkis, S. M. (2018). Gaslighting: Recognize Manipulative and Emotionally Abusive People – and Break Free. Da Capo Press.
Smith, P.K. (2005). Grandparents and grandchildren. The Psychologist. November 2005, Vol.18 (pp.684-687).
Stanford Children’s Health. Let Your Children Raise Their Kids.
NEXT
10 Ways a Narcissistic Grandmother Can Harm Your Children
10 Signs Of an Angry Grandparent (And How to Talk to Your Kids About It)
Indifferent Grandparents: Signs and How to Handle the Disappointment
My grandparents allowed me to get away with anything. I allowed my parents to do the same. My daughter allows the same with my grandkids and I. Grandparents have spoiled kids for decades. Kids can have different rules and adapt to them easily. Whenever I read something like this it seems it was written by someone so worried their kids might like someone better that the need total control. My daughter never loved her grandparents more than I because they let her get away with things or bought her things and my grandkids do not love me more than their parents. It simply created fond memories of unconditional love from grandparents. Only recently has this “toxic this” and “toxic that” come to be. This garbage comes from the “everyone gets a trophy” generation. Want to hurt kids? Marginalize the village that makes them feel safe.keep them from their grandparents and use them as a tool to punish your parents.
Dear Dre,
I hope things are better for you these days. I have a mother that is so EVIL it’s been very difficult to wrap my head around her! I do mean EVIL!!! I really started to see serious chinks in her when I was 9 or 10. It got worse when I was 15. She actually took me with her to a nightclub to go dancing. She and Dad had just divorced (lucky dad!) She became enraged at me because I was constantly asked to dance, and I did. She pointed out to me that SHE was suppose to be out there, not me. I was stunned that my mom was jealous of me! I hadn’t thought anything about it. When my daughter was born I was a single parent by choice. Mom gets this idea to open a daycare so she could keep her granddaughter and according to her…it would make things easier for me. Yeah, right! I never dreamed just how horrible she really was. That such deep evil was lurking inside of her. My mom worked on my daughter by saying things like “your mom is not coming back” when I had to spend 3 weeks out of state for my job. I called her every night and that woman refused to let me speak to her…said talking to her would only upset her. When I was in my 30s I became seriously I’ll with Epstein Bar Virus (which which can turn into a disease if it’s activated in adult years and it happened to me due to very long periods of emotional and physical stress). I thought I would die during that 10 year period and came close three times. When I would get a new infection she would take my daughter to her house. During that time my daughter was in high school. One time I was going to work and I noticed it seemed other cars were moving into my lane. I turned around and went home fearing an inner ear infection. My fever went so high while answering my phone and sitting on a stair that when I hung up the phone it took layers of skin off my ear and when I stood up the skin from the back of my legs ripped off and it was deep. I collapsed on the floor for 7 days barely conscious most of the time. I do remember my mom and daughter coming in and stepping over me without speaking. During all of this my mother filled my child’s head full of lies. She meets some guy online and, although no one met him, or knows squat, about him
May I add “culture” to the list. My gf’s parents have ruined our relationship and at 48 I’m still rejected after giving these grands their only two grandchildren. The grandmother if Filipino and uses “oh in my country” and on more than one occasion her parents actually asked my gf in front of me, if she would be interested in marrying someone to help them obtain citizenship here in America. “Oh it wouldn’t be a real marriage” they said.
Nice advice that parents can follow and look into.
I’ve gotta chime in here; as I’m a grandmother who’s estranged from my only grandchild and since birth by my adult daughter, and a mother who has gone “no contact” with her parents, due to their emotional and physical abuse, and their “grooming” of my daughter in childhood, to the point that my daughter has gone “no contact” with me, my husband and her brother because of said grooming.
So, let’s be clear, any parent who displays narcissistic behavior, plays favorites, undermines parental authority, encourages grandchildren to lie to their parent(s) and more of the like IS TOXIC!! You grandparents getting on here claiming this is nonsense don’t have the slightest idea or you’re one of the aforementioned types!
As for my own situation, I failed to protect my daughter from my parents and they groomed her to hate me, beginning in her teen years. I failed to see what was going on and chalked it up to teen angst and not recognizing what my parents were doing to my child. By the time she was an adult, it was too late and hers and my relationship was utterly destroyed. She takes their side regardless of what the facts are or what anyone else tells her. I failed as a parent.
I failed as a parent because I’m human and made plenty of mistakes, outside the aforementioned above. My daughter, as a young child, put me on a pedestal (one I never deserved) and I let her down.
Does any of this make me an awful or abusive parent, no! I never told my child her feelings didn’t matter or didn’t support her, I never abused her emotionally or physically. I tried to be the best Mom I could, but even then, in her eyes, my sins are too big and too great. For her, I’m just something to be used and then tossed away, until she’s in trouble or in need again.
My adult son tells me I did nothing that deserves this, but I’m more than willing to search deep and acknowledge where I failed her…even though knowing I did breaks my heart.
I love my daughter so very much, but if I hurt her in some way, I must acknowledge her feelings and make amends. At the same time, I can’t allow her to use my failures as a justification to abuse me, which she has verbally and financially multiple times in the past. I had to let her know that abuse of any kind, for any reason, is wrong. I had to set healthy boundaries.
And so, on the last day we spoke, when she began screaming at me and calling me every obscene name in the book, hanging up on her brother whom I’d called and trying to damage my car; all because I was upset with her the day before, due to her invalidating my feelings, I told her I’d had enough of her abuse and told her to get out of my car.
From that day, she has not spoken to me, even though I tried to talk through what happened, she refused to discuss it with me, and has not spoken to me, her brother or her stepdad since. That was 2 years ago. And I’ve respected her desire not to contact me. We all have.
However, last year, I found out she was pregnant, and in February of 2022, she gave birth to a little girl, whom my mother, her grandmother was present for the birth. She has continued to have a relationship with my parents, her grandparents, even though she has admitted (prior to our estrangement) that they did indeed treat me abusively, scapegoat me, and make her the golden child and my son the scapegoat, much like myself.
She knows precisely what and who they are. Unfortunately, she’s chosen to surround herself with enablers and those who seek to keep the wedge driven between us.
I’ve missed and entire year of my granddaughters life, something she, nor I, can ever get back…but I love my daughter. Will I ever trust her again? I don’t know how I ever could. She’s become just like my parents: vindictive, holding me to a standard she couldn’t even achieve, let alone myself, and appears to want to continue to hurt me from afar by including my parents, her grandparents, and excluding me, her brother and my husband.
So, my point is, I know both sides of this equation, and those criticizing this article clearly DO NOT. Not even one side of it! So you have no business criticizing ANY of this! Until you’ve walked in my shoes, you have no right to an opinion about what is right, wrong, or factual! I’ve read and read everything I can get my hands on, on this issue. And let me tell you, both from personal experience and from the studies that are out there, that DO support everything this author has stated as fact, you are clueless and probably as abusive, narcissitic and entitled as my parents are and were! And you have no right to an opinion!!
my ex fiance had an infant daughter when we got together and was not in her daughter’s life from birth until age 4. Her mother raised her daughter. when Victoria and I got together I saw how her mother treated her daughter not wanting to deal with her. putting her in a rocket in front of a tv playing elmo.so.she would sleep wake up and sleep some more I couldn’t stand that. I moved my girlfriend and baby in with me. It was a full house: me, Victoria, Airelle, My mother, and both or my grandparents. things worked well. Victoria had a job when she moved in. I had a worker’s comp injury so we agreed I would take care of the baby. things were ok until her mother started interfering, telling is when she was coming over showing up unannounced. having to call Airelle every night before bed. she in esence was trying to co control our lives and could manipulate Victoria into letting her. Airelle was ao behind developmentaly when she moved she moved in me.and my mothe workes with her.ams got her caught she had been losing weight before she moved in becauae Carol Victorias mother had victoria only giving her 4 ouncrs of formula every 4 hours but 1 once ag at time 1 oz.bupr, 1 oz burp which was crazy. things got even crazier her Carol wouls say she wanted to come see Airelle.spend 5 maybe 10 minutes with airelle the. go into another room of our house and sit.texting witb an online boyfriend when she had a.husban at home. bit disnt like her situation. she may not.even speak.to me or family, she began to.treqt our house like ot.was her h house.going into cabinets eating food without asking trying to walk in the house unannounced she if Airelle was asleep and ahe wanted to hold her.aje would wake het up spend a few minutes with her.them pass her off to somebody else. she even woke airelle up i. the middle.of.ths night and said she was calling her doctor there was no sense in her crying like that. we could not go.to.the store sometimes without having to wait on carol have her meet us at the store. If i bought Airelle a toy even a $1 toy Caroll had to buy 3 toys or a $10 toy.Carols husband filed for divorce. she was able to manipulate her husband’s disabled father with Alzheimer’s and dementia into giving her $20,000 if she agreed to move out and not go after the house. in the divorce. which she had. no legal right to the house to start with. everybody at my house got attached to Airelle my 83-year-old grandfather, 80-year-old grandmother, my 63-year-old mother. i viewed airelle as a daughter. Victoria even told me as far as she was concerned, I was her father. She told me how she knew airelle was going to be a daddies girl. and how she loved.
my mother her Nanna better than her mother, Caroll over that son it made her jealous and my family a.threat
Victora told me how she didn’t want Airelle at her mothers.for.long at the time. the times airelle would go.over there for more than an hour or without Victoria and i , she would come home being distant almost fearful not able to sleep in her crib for a night or two. Christmas was coming so Victoria and I planned a trip to GA to see Airelle’s stepsister. her stepsister’s mother had bought quite a few Christmas presents. her mother found out about the trip said she was going. she didn’t care what anybody said. i wasn’t even going to go because it was our trip and she tried to hijack it and i said the last trip we took i would never take a long-distance trip again with her mother and sister. they made the trip miserable, and freeloaded. I had to pay their part of the trip so Victoria wouldn’t be broke. I paid her car payment. Her mother who didn’t pay a dime, asked if she could afford her car payment after the trip. Victoria told her mother to stand down as.far.as.Geoegia for. christmas. Her mother responded pushing her into a corner where she could lose everything and blackmailed her. she told her they were going to GA for Christmas and airelles birthday they were renting a house in ga that her and Airelle are leaving me and were moving to GA with her. and that i was to know nothing. If Victoria didn’t agree to those terms, then she would get cps involved and make sure Airelle was taken away from her since she knew Victoria has some weed in her system. if that didn’t work she would find a way to kidnap Airelle and take her with her and instead of going to GA they would keep riding into the wind and Victoria would never see Airelle again. And she was going to go off of the loan for the car and would lose it because a payment was due. Victoria didn’t have the money to pay it. Carol told her there was. on way to her.from taking.tje car.since her name was on the title and she had a set of keys. Victoria agreed reluctantly. At the time I was blind to all of this. Christmas time was approaching, it.was.to be record cold temps with wind chills of -15 below zero. there was a possibility of icy roads plus Victoria’s work didn’t want to give her all the days she requested off for a holiday week. money was tough. there were a lot of things I did not feel comfortable about. I asked her to postpone the trip the fgidts would hold. she could. ot postpone not even until Christmas day so we could eat Christmas dinner with then go to GA. her response was she was besting herself up but she thought it would be best if i stayed home in case something happened to my grandparents that only her, her sister and Airelle were going even her mother wasn’t going, which i known know was a lie concocted by Carol to keep from going and i guess to help Victoria feel better about herself, it didn’t sound right from the start Victoria and i never told each other we could go with us somewhere anywhere eve. the store. And i could not for the life of me figure out how she could not include me for Airelle’s 1st. Christmas .and 1st birthday which was December 26th. I asked Victoria first how she could make me choose between spending time with her and Airelle for Airelle’s first Christmas and First Birthday. I had to change it to how could she separate us making me stay home from Airelle’s 1st Christmas and First Birthday. she said she wasn’t trying to be mean, separate or keep me and Airelle apart on her 1st Christmas and 1st Birthday.
I thought it was a cold-hearted lie but little did I know at the time it was the truth. She wasn’t trying to her.mpthet was. that caused a big rift and division between Victoria and me. The holidays with my family come.to find out her mother had the entire GA trip planed and was the one who had bought all gifts that Airelle’s stepsister mother had. Victoria, her sister and Airelle took off after she had worked 8 hours. she worked from 8 am to 4p on Christmas eve came home gave Airelle a shower and left home around.7pm making it to GA around 3 Am driving all night in bad weather (-18 below zero wind chill rain ice) on Christmas eve after working 8 hour 4- or 5-Hour sleep and they could not see the danger. The GA Christmas trip.was a.trap she knew that Victoria’s work dint want to give. her the time off, she intentionally switched Airelle’s Drs appointment to.the day Victoria was supposed.to.go back.to work making her miss more days Carol knew the weather would get somebody sick. they all 4 got sick that was more days off then she manipulated Victoria into taking her to the hospital. missing another day’s work which was her last days work she got fired from her job because of the trip to GA so more incitlntive to go she was broke with a car payment due and no got as long as she went to GA her mother would pay it January 13th unluck Friday 13. mother had a few choice words the night before which gave Victoria cover amd reason. we had errands to run. she left before i got home. i got a text message that Victoria heard the comment, had overstayed her welcome and her and Airelle would be gone when i got home. she was she left some things here i had to get rid of them because of how much it hurt. she let everybody get attached to Airelle and snatched her when nobody was home, so she wouldn’t have to deal with anybody or so she would feel less guilty and not have anybody to deal with. She let mother do the 2 things she agreed not.to.do before she moved in., 1. never just snatch Airelle up and take her away without giving us a notice and a chance to say goodbye, 2. always let me know if there is a problem, any kind of problem.
Victoria has yet to contact me. She blocked me and my family. Airelle’s stepsister did call saying they were Victoria’s and Airelle’s Family now. saying she left because she came home from work Airelle had been in her crib all day without a. diaper change and nothing to eat all day, if she had been working all day how she could had nothing to eat all day and had no diaper change. And why was that never addressed that I would come home, and Victoria was watching Airelle with a soiled diaper and starving with nothing to eat. We would be addressing that she wound not have went to be without knowing. i hears that i am a drug.user, but it’s funny how I was not the one they were going.to make tale.a.drug. I also heard that my family made Victoria’s life a living hell, driving her freaking crazy. I will admit things were stressful at times. my grandmother has Alzheimer’s and dementia i was working to put her into a care facility, which is where she is now. and my mother had a hemorrhagic stroke with a 12ml x. 3ml x 5.ml brain bleed with a brain in 2013.
But Victoria knew about all of that before time. It is easy to blame things on disabled people, just like it was so easy for carol to Scam and Con her husband’s disabled father who has dementia put of $20,000 agreeing that she would not try to take the house. Her name was on the title, but it belonged to her husband and was paid for before they were married. She must feel like a big person taking advantage of disabled people and manipulating and blackmailing her daughter. How is that for toxic grandparent and toxic grandmother syndrome? who should I blame? Should the blame be equal, or should I blame 1 more than the other? comment below.
I just wonder if Airelle will be able to remember anybody after this. She just turned 1 and had started putting a word two together. her first word was daddy. will any of this slow her developmental skills – her being snatched up and put into a new environment? I really don’t see how anybody could manipulate somebody like that.
To all the Grandparents saying how dreadful this article is… I do not believe that any sane parent would refuse the help , kindness, love, attention of a genuine loving grandparent.
Those parents that refuse contact between their children and parents do so because they have been parented by you and know first hand the damage that has been done to them, as parents it’s their job to protect their own children from that treatment. Toxic parents become toxic grandparents. If you want time with your grandchildren then it would be a good idea to be good to your own children first. No one is perfect , true, however when your grown up children have an issue with the way you treated them growing up instead of shutting them down and denying it maybe discuss why you treated them that way. Have an adult conversation and accept that maybe you were wrong . Life changes a lot , what was acceptable many years ago eg: smacking is no longer . We have realised it does more harm than good and with good and consistent parenting is just not necessary.
This is a perfect example of a steaming pile of psycho-conjecture. I see a trend today whereby millennials are encouraged by some very “toxic” online content writers to throw away their parents because the parents were less than perfect. Look at the references for this article; not much in the way of peer – reviewed research. This sort of material can actually cause irreparable damage to the grandchildren who are denied the love and caring of their grandparents. Truly abusive parents should be kept away, but ordinary parents who did their very best to cope with the challenges of raising their kids in the shadow of the often harmful influence of social media, are being treated like trash by many content creators. Last time I checked, I didn’t see too many perfect parents from any generation, including millennials who are glued to the iphones far too much for it to be healthy.. This is pure nonsense that could cause a lot of damage in the lives of ordinary people.
I totally agree with everything Suzy Q said!! I do not understand why social media perpetuates this notion of toxic this and toxic that. There are lots of loving grandparents being denied a relationship with their grandchildren. I was the best parent I knew how to be in a world where single parents were not looked upon favorably. I encouraged my child to have feelings and opinions, to be strong and stand up for yourself. In return her children are being taught that estrangement is the way to handle their problems. My grandchildren are the loves of my life and deep down I am sure they have no idea why they are not allowed any further contact with me. On the other hand, they would not dare disagree or allow themselves to feel any other way than their mother wants them to feel. My daughter is an educated woman who thrives on articles like this to validate her screwed up way of thinking.
👍excellent comment
This is utter rubbish. Almost every human can be toxic. (except babies and people with developmental disabilities who are pure of heart). The rest of us fools are sinners. Moreover, we aren’t to follow the patterns of this corrupt and idiotic world. We are to “honor our fathers and mothers so that things GO WELL FOR US.” Yes, that is universal TRUTH. If you dishonor your parents things don’t go well with you. Naturally, that doesn’t mean you honor a parent who has done criminal behavior or sexually abused you. That’s a no brainer. However, in today’s world you have everything so blown out of whack that some adult children that read this may think a grandparent can’t intervene in any situation without their permission. That is complete BS. And so what if a grandparent has a favorite grandchild so long as the others are treated fairly and with love. We have favorite pets, right? Favorite foods? Favorite TV shows? Keep it real folks. Quit being so easily offended. Esteem others above yourself. If we all did that we’d have a little more love and harmony. Nothing good is accomplished by drunken adult children in the throes of their inner turmoil searching on the Net for advice on how to deal with parents they feel should act or talk a certain way as grandparents. Sometimes the adult child who is seeking to “label” their parents should take a look at themselves, first. Are you drinking too much? Do you inconsistently discipline your child? Are you on your 3rd marriage? Clean up yourselves before attacking your children’s grandparents so you can see clearly and stop projecting.
I concur. This is harmful advice & promotes the idea that people can’t compromise & a “solution” is all or nothing. Everything about it is extreme & promotes the destruction of the extended family. When I was growing up, my granma was an alchoholic, not the greatest thing. But after my mom made sure we were always safe — never staying with her for example — she always taught us to love her & that people are not perfect. We learned a lot growing up, still loved our grandma & found out that the world isn’t perfect & we could cope. I still learned how to make gravy her way too.
I agree and would like to add several more thoughts. I’m always amazed to find articles on sites that make it hard to see who wrote the article. No way to check out the credibility of the author. However! In this case the way you can still get a sense of their credibility is by the structure of the writing. You can sense the anger. It seems to me there is an unresolved trauma lingering in the psyche and this article is a way to get back at someone. There is little effort to explore or discuss all the various variables involved in family dynamics especially perceptions. One person may see toxicity while another my just see a personality type. This person seem, in my opinion, to see the world as a glass half full.
The references are very few and mostly old. Worse though, is the lack of citations to those references, implying most of this work is the author’s own conclusions. Well that can’t be true because this person throws around the diagnosis of Narcissism incorrectly implying a lack of serious research. Just look at the title, “Toxic Grandparents…” as if the relationship issue is one sided. I don’t know of any relationship that can be pinned down to just one side.
SuzyQ is spot on. This psychobabble is just that, babble. The culture, driven by the Devil, is causing these adult kids to become, evil, nasty, narcissistic jerks who only want what they want, and the heck with everyone else.
You are absolutely right. Article like this is the reason lots of families have problem these days.
My son in law was abusing me for 12 years and I kept quite for my daughters happiness. She is a surgeon and have very stressful job. As a mother I know that children burst to their mother when they stressed.. it is normal, when stress is gone we forgot about it. .since she got married she start gaining weight and her anger increased. She was doing everything to please him and I was observing the relation ship quietly, then he start abusing me when we are alone. My daughter wanted to have kids before it was too late, she was 35 years old. I have 2 grand children and I haven’t seen the last one he is 7 months old. After the first baby he start talking about being stay home dad because my daughter makes a lot of money , he does not need to work and convinced my daughter.. I respected their decision but he increased his hostility towards me. So I decided to move to the city my daughter lives , sold my house . He tried to discourage me but I didn’t change my mind because I wasn’t sure about this relation ship, she had a lot to loose if it didn’t work. As soon as I refused to be abused and refused to be alone with him my daughter involved and they didn’t allow me to see my grandchildren. Yes I miss my grandchildren but I am happier and I am in piece. That’s third choice . I refuse to have relationship who makes me miserable.
Now I am asking everyone who is the toxic one here.
Please stop reading this type articles it doesn’t do any good to anyone.
First let me say, I am in my 30s and have 4 young children. This article is bogus. My in-laws and parents could easily be accused of most of these but they are not toxic people. All 4 are very involved in their grandchildren’s lives and I think they have the right and obligation to mentor me as a parent and my children. “Grand” isn’t a demotion in the parenting realm and lots of parents would have better outcomes with their kids if they used their parents and in-laws as experts rather than annoyances.
Omg! You must be toxic your self. How old are your kids? If the grandparents really do follow these harmful traits & it doesn’t bother you, the whole dynamic must be dysfunctional:/. I pray for these children, they need it!
So well said Lisa!!!
I am accused of being a toxic grandparent by a narcissistic child. Only they will feel threatened and accuse a normal loving grandparent as toxic.
This author sounds very familiar!!!
I’m coming to a realization that I’m really going to have to cut ties with my mother. I believe she is making my kids sick on purpose when they go to visit her. She tries to cause pain at every family event, this why she is no longer allowed at my house. She has even tried to get my husband to go against me. She has been like this all of my life, especially with other relatives. But I woke up to her ways when she tried to start a campaign against me a few years ago, telling my aunts and cousins that I was crazy because I would not give into her ways. She is very manipulative and when you try to call her out, she goes into dizzy spells or is absolutely clueless. But hearing today that my son was given something white and nasty that made him have extreme diarrhea at her house is the last straw. Mind you, this son of mines is her least favorite grandchild although she tries to say otherwise. I already know she will not admit to doing this but I started investigating once she asked my aunt what I told her about my son because I’m always lying??!??? So it made me wonder what really happened. I’m afraid to tell my husband all of this because he will go off! Any tips on getting her help or suggestions is greatly appreciated.
I have dealt with something similar—yet, I know my grandma situation is different, where she’s expecting me to be a little more outgoing than usual. If your mom/child’s grandparent(s) must see your child, what you may want to consider is supervised visits, so you know what’s actually going on (if you can). If you can’t, just don’t allow your child(ren) to visit her anymore. If she’s mad/upset with you for you saying “no”, then you’re in the right to cut her off. In this case, there does come a point where you have to cut certain people off, even if they’re family. I know that’s heavy, yet very true. Maybe, encourage your son to make friends, if you can. If you have to go to family reunions, and your mom/your child(ren)‘s grandmother shows up, and tries to wonder why you stood your ground, and accuses you of not being very nice, and even coddling your child, for all the right reasons, just walk away and say “I don’t have time for this.” If she turns the whole family against you, then leave, and take your child(ren) with you. That’s just what I would do.
I’m there with you Amy. The minute something offended my daughter her response to that is revenge, to throw away a perfectly loving grandparent for her very selfish reason – to punish me. To do the one thing that would cut me to the core. But what about my grandchild who is not old enough to understand vengeance but is old enough to be heart broken.
I don’t know if it appropriate but I agree with Dre says – that is the epitome of a toxic grandparent.
That woman who’s on the smear campaign telling everyone your crazy sounds like a diabolical covet malignant narcissist who’s toxic as hell the only thing u can do with these poisonous Vermon is go no contact and stay no contact
I believe your answer lies within your aunt I’m guessing her sister. How did they grow up was she just the sister out or was the great grandparents relationships not normal. If you can find out where it comes from then you might be able to deal with it. I always went with my children to my parents. I didn’t have the same control with the ex laws.
My boomer mother worked very hard with my boomer ex-mother-in-law to destroy my relationship with my ex-wife, not only did that result in my not having a stable and reasonable relation with my ex, but I was cut off from my kid!! My ex decided to join the two boomers in a campaign against me to ensure that I would not access nor a relationship with my only child!! I made contact finally with my kid, turns out my kid is totally turned against me. So my worst enemy, my own boomer mom has access and influence over my kid, but I’m the idiot and I get nothing but child support and parental alienation as my reward!! Thanks society, Thanks boomers!!
I know that I love my grandma to death, but I have a strong feeling that she maybe toxic. She pesters me about my diet, even tries to dictate things to me like my fashion/style choices, even though I aim to keep it simple most of the time, scolds me over choosing to stay home on Sundays, and not even wanting to go to church, due to the fact that I disagree with half of what the pastor is saying, most of the attendees disagree with me on most things, even attempting to control where I shop, how I do my hair (even if it’s a temporary hair color that washes out in the shower), or even wanting to learn the hard way on things. I feel as if I am in a corset that’s tied so tightly I can not even breathe when I try to do my own thing entirely. It’s almost like I can’t even stand up for myself. It almost seems to me like she sees me as her favorite grandkid, next to her younger two that she has. I know that if someone is holding onto you, even if it’s “family” it’s not love. Love would be letting go when necessary. I tried to talk to her about these things, but she keeps shutting down my conversations “as if I was arguing, and thought she was verbally reprimanding me” I gotta ask “What have I done? I don’t deserve to be treated like this!” I feel as if I had been brought up as a people-pleaser, and I don’t know how to help people understand that, no I can’t always make people happy, even if it’s “family”. Is there any way/chance I can cut off contact with my grandma if she’s truly toxic? And, I know that I was in-and-out of therapy because of how my grandmother was always frowning on my own choices, even though I wasn’t breaking any laws, or even doing/dealing drugs. If there’s any chance to know for sure whether or not this relationship is toxic, I can use all the help I can get.
My mom she still keeps talking to me and I would like her to stop talking to me right now and no longer come in my room and she’s still going on with her stupid bug and parasite nonsense and there is none I would like her to stop with her ridiculous bug and parasite nonsense right now make an appointment to see a therapist today.
I am sorry your mom does that to you. If you want to be left alone, your mom should respect your request. I understand that if you are under the legal age of consent, then there’s not a whole lot you can do, but if possible tell her in a calm and collective manner that “there are times you want to be left alone.” If you are above the age of consent, then you have a right to say no. If it truly is/gets out of hand, make an appointment with a therapist, even if you have to pay for the appointment/session, talk to the therapist about the situation you are facing. If you have a religious/spiritual leader, talk to them about the situation first and foremost. If they don’t believe you, then just move on to the next thing. Know that you can’t always make people happy, even if they are “family”—sometimes, you just have to make your own decisions, even if you don’t want to talk to mom. Maybe she’s lonely. Maybe, she has no one left to talk to. Try introducing her to some people you know personally. It could be a school teacher, a barista at a coffee house, or even your co-workers. I have those moments too, when I don’t want to talk to my mom either. But, what I found works for me is using my headphones, and tuning them out. Even a small phrase like “not now” might just work. I know outbursts don’t work for me, since they don’t understand fully why I don’t want to talk. One thing that you could tell them “Look-I just need some alone time right now!” If it has to do with them expecting you to follow in their footsteps, tell them that you want to chart a new path for yourself—and, that’s okay. There’s a dark side to making everyone happy—it doesn’t matter if it’s “family”. Just do what you believe is right, even if they get mad at you for it. There’s always a dark side to being a people-pleaser all the time. But, ask yourself “what makes you happy?” Sometimes, you have to put your own happiness first. There’s this age-old saying “don’t put the cart before the horse”—in this case, don’t always put your mom’s happiness before your own. Learn to say no, as a means of protecting your own happiness. Sometimes, being too nice is just conformity against your own will. The truth is that you can’t always be nice—that’s just how life is. People aren’t always going to be nice either—I had to learn that the hard way. If she’s invading your personal space, tell her she needs to stop doing that. If she says no, maybe she has something important to tell you. Otherwise, if she’s saying no, all because she wants to control you, if you are a minor (according to your state laws and rules), then keep busy and make plans to move out and find work—even if it’s to make money for yourself, so you can purchase pieces of furniture for your new place. Make sure that you are financially stable if you are planning on cutting ties with mom. It’s okay to love her, but sometimes if she’s toxic, then it’s okay. If she’s using you, and secretly taking your money money, even without you noticing, firmly let her know that is stealing, and it’s wrong to steal. I have just ran out of words…
Strange article. Most of the advice is harmful and mean. Family should do everything in their power to stay together.
Not necessarily. Being in toxic environments can cause health problems, autoimmune stress related diseases. Also, you never know how extreme a person would go to harm someone, especially a kid. Pray and love from a distance. If you can’t not see yourself being away from family, definitely do supervised visits and phone calls to create a safe zone.
You described everything a grandparent does as toxic. I think this article is extremely damaging and written by someone who HATES grandparents. Sick. Is the writer of this grandparent hate a psociopath and tell us about your personal experience with grandma.
I was a grandchild once and my parents took away the fabulous toys that my grandparents gave me. They didn’t want me spoiled. Then Cps showed up one day and my parents where instructed to take us to the toy store and buy us toys. I grew up feeling neglected and worthless while all my friends had toys and involved grandparents. My parents wouldn’t allow the grandparents an iota of input.
Your advice was quite helpful. These pointers may be used in any area that requires originality, creativity, and difference.
Im in an even more abusive situation now living with my abusive dads mother… Who is even wooooorse… She worked at the mental health rreatment secenternfor 40 years. So she knows all about wwhat a piece of shit she is so she is just unpredictable. Oh… I dont how putting two pieces of bread together qualifies you for but… Ya… They clearly dont screen the employees, I unless it was a job placement after spending time in the homewood for psychiatric care… Im raising her and her boyfriend… And when they have a couple days sober then ofcourse they king shit again. I cant cook, and i cant be in the house without getting harrassed in a disgusting sarcastic grandiose manner or triggered by over hearing the violent, pjysical and verbal abuse up stairs towards her boyfriend. I basivcally havebto stay in the garage. I was at the best point ive ever been before i moved back to my hometown, then the plandemic lockdown started… I got kicked out of the room i was in the first month…. Insanity.. I dont know how i find them. So anyways. I ended up at my gmas… I sense she said i can live there just because it was useful to her. (the boyfriends job was very tight about restrictions but he likes me so he wasnt impressed but he wasnt never against me staying there. It was her thats kicked me out in the past and he wanTed me to stay)
I must help their drunk abusive narcissitic abusive asses but Im the one who is suicidal, hopeles, respectful and confined to a garage… Im paying to be abused and i dont know what to do. Havent been to a. Grocery store in almost a year… I cant do a grocery store alone with a mask… They cant be of any help bevause… Uhhh… Because im not a human being to them… Im a slave for their supply…. I am fucking lost… Im Not making it out alive..im certain ill die here. Not if but when… My parents love it im sure… It would completely seal their fate and they get the sympathy. They started a new business and gave 10 k to mental health services… Big picture in the paper. I dont have any tax rebates…. Hes so great, I cares for his mentally family and owns buncha houses, was a gm at a factory and successful.. Theres a reason that we are all ill and ita him. Now that im gone hes resorted.to using a diagnosis to excuse his abuse. It wasnt a problem when i couldnt invite friends over because someome smacks there lips. Ive seen that disorder and i think its an Narc entitlement Problem that he picked up from hating that his mother did it. Its a serious disorder, truly, i am not speaking about anyome else but them having experiemced it my whole life with both of them. In my gut i think it just admits that hes got explosive abusive anger issues and sadistic. .. Much more. Anyways.. I need some hekp… Ill take any sort of human interaction,… Anything..
Yes. You definitely need help. There are toxic children too. Please get help. Search community resources for income driven payment methods, so that that is not a barrier. There is usually more than one side, or even two sides to a story. If what you have posted is actually an account of your feelings and perception, I hope you get help soon, If your post is just for your giggles, that’s toxic.
My I would like her right now to permanently stop talking to me permanently stay away from my room and get help with her mental illness make an appointment to see a therapist she is seeing bugs don’t even exist her mental illness is making her think she’s seeing bugs and she’s not.
I have experienced meddlesome grandparents who have abused my child. Not all grandparents are bad even if they are ex in-laws. I know some amazing grandparents who are very loved and know that their job is not to replace parents. They are logical and reasonable. In their hearts their grandchildren are their world but in reality they step aside and watch their children raise happy intelligent children because they trust their children from doing such and incredible job themselves. Their involvement is not forced, it’s based on trust and understanding. Grandparents need a life outside of their grandchildren. In some situations such as mine, toxic manipulative grandparents exist and sadly it’s taken a tremendous toll. Grandparents can complicate custody matters. Where the ex grandparents behave more poorly than the ex spouse. They are people who feel entitled and it’s about appearances —keeping up with the other grandma and grandpa “Jones” because they perceive other families in ways that may not be accurate. They play games in spite.
Grandparents have had their turn to parent, they need to allow parents to have the control over their own children that they deserve. If they don’t like your laundry detergent and parents prefer you use something scent free so the child doesn’t develop allergies and asthma from artificial fragrances – do it! Listen to the children’s parents. If they don’t want you feeding a child something they feel is unhealthy, listen and don’t challenge them. Don’t be annoying. If the children’s parents are irresponsible and you have to pick up the slack then that is different. If you have to pick up the slack for your kids you probably were not as good of a parent as you should have been and you may think you can make up for it and fix things with grandkids but that’s not how it works. Too many toxic grandparents are bored and lack hobbies that would keep them busy, instead they become meddlesome in their grandchild’s lives. They need other things to occupy their time and their mind. If the signs are there that relationships are becoming strained than back off, don’t make it worse. If you don’t, then relationships can end completely. Grandparents need to show love by listening and learning because times have changed. Doing as you feel not respecting parents wishes is selfish. You would want your wishes respected. It goes both ways. Respect the parents if you respect the child. Children are observant and they may see more than you realize. If you feel you need to be around children and raise them again, don’t take that away from good parents, many children are in need of foster care. Help others.
I know theres a difference between toxic, overindulgent, spoiling etc however my stomach hurt while reading this. I was glad to hear it struck a nerve with so many people. My son in law goes nutso on me if i use the wrong laundry detergent after watching his kids at my house for days and doing their laundry. He criticizes the way everyone pronounces words, cleans the kitchen counters and even the angle a person places a sponge in a sponge holder. If i had to live by all his rules, id have to cut him out! I just keep telling him not to sweat the small stuff. My daughter, her husband and my only grandchildren also live with the husband’s mother who is a huge know it all and whatever she says goes. These parents are entitled and have more than the help they need – and yet you make simple pleasures and offerings appear toxic – and make those of us who are searching for guidance feel guilt and shame. How about an article for young parents about how to go out of their way to honor and show appreciation for how their own patents did their very best and will go above and beyond for this new generation of little ones.
This is a horrible article. The article is so vague, it gives insecure parents A reason to discharge grandparents from their childrens lives for the smallest of subjective reasons. No one is perfect. Parents through this article can find many things that come natural from a grandparents love can be construed as toxic. My son has not allowed me to see my grandchildren based on this article. The worse it is not based on abuse of any kind. All I did is refuses to leave my granddaughters in the car alone, when I was asked not to take them in anywhere due to Covid. I took them in anyway. I told the girls not to touch anything, we were 3 of 5 people in the store and I had wipes to wipe their hands off. I let the girls parents know this but it was not good enough, leaving them alone in the car was according to them my only option. The next time I asked to take the girls for lunch, I was hit with supervised visits(my daughter-in-law works for child protective services and is a foster child herself) than no visits because they got mad at me for taking up for myself, which according to this hateful article is toxic. The troubling part about this was my granddaughter’s parents had to ask them what I did and did not do according to their rules. I was never spoken to about any of this just my granddaughters were questioned. Damned if grandparents don’t. Damned if grandparents do, according to this article to break down the family unit. If parents are over protective, insecure or judge mental, this article will give them subjective reasons and excuses for separation.
This article is awful! What in the world? What happened to grandparents getting to enjoy their grandchildren. Grandchildren are children. Not objects. Not possessions. Families matter. Good grandparents are not going to neglect a parent’s wishes, but really! What is wrong with having chocolate cake for breakfast at granny’s??? I know my children loved it at their grandparents when they were growing up! They were allowed to get away with a few more things at their grandparents; however, nothing absurd. This article is toxic for sure! So sad. Sorry you don’t get to see your children being loved by their grandparents — What joy it is!
what if they go visit rights through court.. they should not be entitled to visit rights my kids are damaged and may experience learning delays because of abuse.. and no support since parents never been supportive
I haven’t seen my grand children in over 20 years.Their mother died,which was my daughter.Her husband isn’t some of the boys father.He said now that your daughter is dead I have a woman that will be the boys mom and my new wife and you are no longer needed in our family!If you try to see the boys I will have you murdered and no one will ever find your body.He is connected to some very evil people!He has me followed making sure that I stay away from his family.I know that my grand children miss me as I do them but this evil person took them from me.I’m hitting 70 and my grand sons are lost to me forever.I have 5 grand sons and he has brain washed them!
I’m not a grandparent yet but I do not agree with this article. Keeping your children from their grandma or grandpa is ridiculous. My mom did this to me when I was 11 and I had years of bitterness towards her. I loved going to their house & she used her own selfish reasons to keep me from being in their lives. After I turned 15 I started seeing them again & still do to this day. They love me like I’m their own.
People sometimes mistake “ toxic labels” when they don’t even know the situation. Quick to judge and slow to listen. Part of our society now.
Amen!
This is a horrible article! You should be ashamed of yourself for feeding the disrespect coming from our kids! This just feeds the disconnection of families in a time when we need each other! Shameful article! I think about my grandparents, they were not “toxic” or “narcissistic”, but they did some of these things… because they had experience and they loved me, my parents didn’t push them away for them giving advice or spoiling me! Absurd article! 10 thumbs down!
Clearly you’ve never dealt with a narc parent before. This article is spot on. Kick abusers to the curb because they wont be there for you anyway. Encouraging people to allow themselves to be treated poorly is what’s awful.
Lucas, the point these broken hearted grandparents are trying to make is … Grand children and Grandparents are important parts of the family. Barring abuse and narc behavior, which does make it necessary to break contact, Grand Parents and Grand children benefit greatly from the unconditional love and support of each other.
While most of this list isn’t “Awful”. It is natural for Grandparents to want to spend some time with their grandchildren.
It is not abusive or toxic to want to spend time with your Grandchildren!
There are Always at least 2 sides of the story. Not all grandparents are narcs! Many are loving and still cut off. It’s an epidemic that is shaming and heartbreaking.
https://alienatedgrandparentsanonymous.com/
I completely agree with you Sharon. This is almost putting wrong thoughts in the new parents minds
If your grandparents had these characteristics then you are in denial and you should be ashamed for shaming the author. If you feel they were not narcissistic, then move on. No need to shame the author. I have a narcissistic mother-in-law who I had to stop visitation between her and my child. 4 years and $100,000 later in attorney fees (money that could be going towards taking care of my son) I’m still going to court (because she is suing me for visitation) fighting against the visitation to protect my son from someone who feels entitled. Just because someone is a grandparent and family, does give them automatic rights to anyone’s child(ren).
If your grandparents had these characteristics then you are in denial and you should be ashamed for shaming the author. If you feel they were not narcissistic, then move on. No need to shame the author. I have a narcissistic mother-in-law who I had to stop visitation between her and my child. 4 years and $100,000 later in attorney fees (money that could be going towards taking care of my son) I’m still going to court (because she is suing me for visitation) fighting against the visitation to protect my son from someone who feels entitled. Just because someone is a grandparent and family, does give them automatic rights to anyone’s child(ren).
I think Sharon has some validity here.. it’s overthinking “toxity”.. your kids grew up with you,
they know their great-grandmother’s ways, they know your ways, and if they felt “how you deal with your grandchildren” wasn’t healthy our generations of kids have “no problem” of being open with you and tell you “back off”. When they do scold us, we pay attention, we may not even know showering their kids is what?? exactly, what you did with your parent, what your parent may likely not have done usually because of a financial difference then where you’re coming from.
Amen.
This IS a toxic article. I had the same experience with my parents and in-laws. I enjoyed my boys grandparents loving on them. What joy it is! And, yes, the grandparents did spoil them a tad — that’s okay, too.
What a vile article this is – never taking into consideration at all that the parent has abused her own parents so much that SHE’S the toxic one and that she actually is a danger to her child which caring grandparents recognise . There are so many damning statements in this article that could be read by someone with a serious BDP or autism and they will read this and decide that all the woes they’ve ever faced in their own life , are directly down to the loving and caring parents they were but when a child has a developmental issue like autism or a BPD , they’re not safe to be around their own children . This article is full of such utter rubbish , if I could find the author , I’d take them on legally – this is a potentially dangerous article and should be removed . Feeding the imaginations of people who already lack empathy or have drug and alcohol issues , will easily buy into rubbish like this and see themselves as victims of an awful upbringing , when in fact , their upbringing was actually one of great privilege – unfortunately , such people do exist and then go on to produce the next generation of people who lack empathy and think there’s nothing wrong in berating their parent or parents because they don’t meet their overinflated expectations that they’ve been lead to believe , is their right .
Some of the triggers and phrases used in this article point me to think that the writer had a bad experience with his / her mother and has now labelled ALL grandparents as being potentially toxic . The only toxic person here is the person who wrote and published this article . I feel sorry for his/her parents and his /her offspring . This person is a disgusting example of humanity who shows signs of being on the spectrum which means they’ve condemned all others on the spectrum , to a life of misery .
I haven’t read any of the other comments. I’m just going to give it from my point of view I’m the granny. My son has 2 beautiful daughters 7 ,6 and 2. For the first several years of the older girls I had them as much as their parents. It’s only for the past 2 years that it’s become less and less. My son and his wife are serious alcoholics. My ex husband lives with them and he’s also a heavy drinker. After my oldest granddaughter was born my son started to be physically abusive to me. He uses the girls as a way to hurt me. If I say something he doesn’t like I can’t see them. He has bad mouthed me so much that his wife says awful things about me to my granddaughters. I’ve been left out of baby showers birthdays school events holidays. Last year my ex decided to stop paying my alimony. I got a call from NY son drunk of course telling me how low I am. His wife actually testified against me in my alimony hearing. She said I buy my grandbabies a lot of very expensive gifts. Implying that I have plenty of money and don’t need alimony. The truth is 95% of what I buy the girls is used. Used toys used clothes. Or I’ll split the cost of something with my daughter. My ex has led to our son so much about me that my son believes him. I’m not dangerous I’m the opposit. I love them I teach them things like how to swim and stand on their heads and see and cook and read and ride a bike. I sing them to sleep and do their hair. Yes they have to many sweets at my house but they also eat very healthy foods as well. We go to the library the zoo the park and so on. My son says I last my privilege to see them because I wouldn’t stop running my mouth. The truth is after taking his shit for the past 17 years I told him he’s a bully and he wants to be the big mean boss. Hardly running my mouth. Maybe my son needs to show me some respect. I’ve been a great mom to him and a great grandmother to the girls. Don’t you think as families we should love? My son has no reason to be angry with me. If he actually did have a reason don’t you think the mature thing to do would be to say hey mom can we talk? Isn’t that what mature adults do? He says he’s mad because I ran my mouth. When did my son start to tell me what I can and can’t say? It’s ok for him to tell me how horrible I am how low I am to call me a crack head, it’s ok for him to shove me so hard that my ribs were cracked that he nearly broke my wrist. It’s ok that when he’s been in a drunken black out that he hit me and then call the police on me? Non of those things matter but if I tell him he’s a bully I’m cut off. Well he is a bully. He knows I love the girls and he uses that to hurt me. I think your doing damage by encouraging adult children to cut their parents off from their children. Grand parents play an important roll in grandchildrens lives. I could take my son and his wife to court and could probably win visitation. But I don’t want to put the girls through that. Honestly I don’t know what to do. I’m so worried for them. I know they’re missing me. I’m missing them. My heart is so broken. I’m in tears everyday. I need help. I can’t fix this. My son doesn’t want it fixed. He’s got his dad in his ear 24/7.. And I’m not his drinking buddy. Please think twice before you hand out advice on going no contact. Why should the babies lose out on the wonderful relationship with a granny. That’s something they can never get back
With all your respect some grannies need to be cut off
Grandparents with money just pay off the judge to believe ALL of their lies about the parent. She drugs my child lies to my child and won custody of my child. My daughter’s father’s adopted mother has custody of our child. He helped her do it!!!
Your justice system in USA is horrendous
My child’s father’s adoptive mother has also gone great lengths to make life difficult. I don’t think it’s coincidence my story and this one have similarities. There are unaddressed mental issues with adoptive parents. They are looked at as hero’s, but people need to look at it in a different perspective. Not all are perfect. Adoptive parents are not immune to serious mental health issues and can be abusive. Adopting a child should never make people turn a blind eye thinking that an adopter can do no wrong.
I’m glad you brought it up, and you’re absolutely right. Adoptive parents aren’t perfect, and they can be afflicted by the same mental health issues as the rest of us. When your child is involved, no one should get a free pass to be abusive or disrespectful of your parenting choices.
Bless your heart. I am so sorry that you do not know the love of a good family.
I sympathise with the years of frustration experienced by this grandmother, and all parties know deep down inside that grandparents have no rights. We as a society would rather the Courts put the welfare of the child first and we put them last. By shutting out granny you are not looking at the welfare of the the child as primary issue. Your 1-10 toxic checklist are just that, and need to be assessed – if there is any evidence to prove them. Guess everyone will have to wait till they grow up to be alcoholics and screwed up.
This is such a good read! I do think boundaries have to come from both sides but when it falls on deaf ears and what you think and feel should be done isn’t listened too what else can you do from there? The only thing you can do is to walk away, Trust me I have been dealing with this same issue with my eldest there entire life, nearly 13 years, Those types of grandparents won’t ever change and trust me iv tried, EVERYTHING!! they are minipulative to you as a child and then it’s carried forward, See my experience was getting smacked as a child in there care, But one parent claimed they’d leave if that ever happened.. You guessed it there still together, And I was the age my child is now after selfharm and crying endlessly I ran away, To be found a while later taken back home and made to apologise to the person that was doing this, Fast forward it continued but I was older and stronger and had physical fights with this person at 18-19years old, This person was a bully, The last I remember being pregnant and being smacked, my arm being taken from underneath me and I slipped, And yes this person is still aloud around children because the other parents excuse is she’d leave if it was done to a grandchild, So for years being told if I don’t like something then get out I finally moved at about 25 that day all my stuff was dumped in a house with no carpets and vertualy no money to keep me and the child alive, That’s when then should we say pushed in, Butted in and started taking the child for weekends and then it just went from there instead of helping and respecting my boundaries they took over and thought they were the child’s saving grace, Made comments like I don’t deserve the child if I was NOT KIDDING! 2-5mins late getting the child from school, toxic comments like aren’t I good enough to look after the child, And you’ve guessed it the child now is now absolutely horrible, ignorant and blames his mother for every part of there life, The child is a constant liar, unable to play with other children, (not aloud) the grandparent claims the child has adhd, ptsd, and add non have been diagnosed BTW or a single doctors visit! Every single bit of this article has a tick for me! And if anyone reads this and completely agrees, Believe me leave all that behind no matter how hard its going to be! Iv moved on from this situation but from time to time it’s revisited and I know it shouldn’t be, Believe me cut them off! It will not get better this isn’t your doing like they make out its there’s for being a abusive!
This is one of the most harmful negative articles I have ever read. I think it is a case of scapegoating grandparents.
It turns grandparents into bad objects.
Noone is perfect
What would toxic parents under the same headings reveal? That all parents should be cut off from their children because they do these things too?
I appreciate that we all need a rant at times but this book may do great damage to families
The writer and the parents reading need to look at themselves as well
Grandparents and all individuals with children can bring joy and delight to a child’s life.How about listing the positive effects too.
This book can do untold damage to so many families.
Just like reading a medical dictionary and identifying illnesses as your own.
Susceptable folk will decide they have toxic grandparents and want to get rid of them.
Surely when visits to grandparents reveal unwanted experiences as well as good ones the balanced parent will build on the good and either discuss or ignore the bad.
Let’s have some balance here.How about 10 ways to identify a positive grandparent?
And maybe 10 ways to teach your children to recognise love and kindness and respect and tolerance
There will be lots of people in a child’s life who are far from perfect but it is impossible to remove them all from your children and if they are only given a perfect childhood they are not going to be prepared for the real world when they mature
If grandparents do wrong things talk about it, arrange visits to avoid the conflict but please poisonous author introduce some love and respect into the discussions.Remember these grandparents want to help, they are trying, they love their grandchildren who bring joy to their world and they want to help you, their child.
Please don’t label us all toxic and bad for your families
Just show them, kindly how to help
Thank you for reading my opinion, good luck
Bringing up a family is the most challenging and rewarding thing anyone can ever do
I like what you wrote. Thank you for giving us grandparents hope. It’s hard enough just to exist and have a family unit these days; and kids need all the love they can get, from step-grandparents, too.
Most parents try/do speak first to toxic grandparents. You may have good intentions but that doesn’t mean all do, unfortunately. This article highlights how to deal with TOXIC grandparents. We cut my husbands mother off due to her gaslighting us every time we tried to address that she wasnt helping by purposely going against us, out doing us every holiday or using my husbands name as a scapegoat to deflect the fact that she abandoned my husband when he was 12 years old- she left him for money. She married an older man who financially had an over abundance but wanted my husband out of the picture. Weve tried for 13 years to build a relationship with her and she is only concerned with our children while pushing my husband and his feelings to the side. She is beyond entitled and thought she had free reign to plan and do as she pleases with children that are NOT HERS. Grandparent and parent do not mean the same thing. Some people don’t understand that basic statement. Parents need support, not a competitor with an inflated ego who wants to prance children around for attention bc she said “at this stage of my life i want to play role of grandma”… we tried… she’s somehow a victim when she skipped most important parts of parenting my husband first LOL. Not everyone has your same intention. My advice to any grandparent is work on the relationship with your child FIRST.
I agree with Josie. It’s true, not all grandparent’s are healthy for our child(ren) to be around.
If you feel you are not narcissistic, then move on. This article wouldn’t pertain to you. No need to shame the author. The author didn’t say ALL grandparents are toxic
I have a narcissistic mother-in-law who I had to stop visitation between her and my child. 4 years and $100,000 later in attorney fees (money that could be going towards taking care of my son) I’m still going to court (because she is suing me for visitation) fighting against the visitation to protect my son from someone who feels entitled. Just because someone is a grandparent and family, does give them automatic rights to anyone’s child(ren).
I agree with you it’s like a grandparent isn’t valued and our lives are disposable. I love my granddaughter very much and I honestly don’t think I will have another grandchild. And to have my one and only held over my head like a pawn in a sick game her alcoholic mother’s are playing is just hurtful as well as hateful. Thank goodness she has a voice and is able to speak about our bond since day one she’s been a part of my life and now because her mother decided she want to be a man I am not allowed to see her. I have always supported my son’s decision to be whatever he felt comfortable doing. My love for her /him was love at first sight . Nothing will ever change that but to make this about that is so wrong my granddaughter has told them she misses me but they ignore her because I spoil her. I am I living on a fixed income I can’t afford to spoil her. I just enjoy spending time and baking and crafting so I don’t think this article is fair
I would like to say that you lost me right away on this ridiculous article. I will spoil my grandchildren every single chance I get. My grown children know we lived in severe poverty when they were young, however I make a shit ton of money now so I will provide for the wee ones as much as possible. And yes sometimes my absence (in the grandchildren’s lives)is paid for by provisions that I can provide now (I live hours away from my 2 youngest grand babies n I do what I can….I’ve bought thousands of dollars worth of parenting stuff). I will give my grandchildren donuts n cookies and popsicles anytime!
I also spoily grand kids ….but ours goes deeper our side is family ort …so highly involved grandparents from my parents when we all lived in same city…helped when i was in school and working …..daughter in laws side of the family ..only use to seeing family maybe 3 times a year ..
Also she lost he mom when she got prego……meddling when u see Neglect …when u see no real food being bought …..child is crying for everyone to stay sneaks call for u to come get her …has cfs involved ..drinl all fhe time …child at less then a year falling off slides over 5 feet cause tje parents are wanti g to fight …..burnt her hand at 6 months cause she was left in room by her self …she is 3 parents bought her tv ..cell phone ….tablet ………long list we had are granddaughter for 4 months in that time no sickneess …no fallss no nothing ….went back to parents and ots all over again …..they now habe twins love my grandkids ….but she starting to pull my granddaughter away they still drinking always ….kids are not being taken care of i dont thinl or feel i am being meddling for my grandkids well being amd she tells other family i dont love the twins cause i dont always take all 3 kids togther ..she is 3 and they are 4 months ……they also dont take her out swiming …zoos … Museums ..camping ….tjey hardly tale her to the parks …..so when we do have her alsp thoq are the things we are doing we spend time with her real time with her ….so whem we dp have all 3 she gets jelo and yells at us to npt take her home she wants to stay with us and play …..like i have 7 grandkids ages 11 to 4 months …i jave even taken them.all at the same time …2 grandkids live with us 11 and 8 years old ….been with us since tjere mommy lived at home and sje moved out and didnt want to distube what they all know
Im glad they have finially made rights to grandparents ….but to be fair in all fights it takes 2 …..so if a child is feeling the parent is being over involved should not be just point the pick……should also be okay what is going on tjey feel they need to be …maybe we all need to take a step back and look ….yes im not saying grandparnts or any family member dont want to be involved or parents cant see on some the issue ……but if ur abused as a child by ur parents or who ever ….why would u allow to begin with ur child alone with them ……thats what i am getting at …..u dont test water with ur kids maybe they changed ……..and thats right no perfect parenting ……but there is sure knowing that Neglect is still a form of abuse so u step in …y tummy hurts every time i see them cause Neglect from other people It is very hard to discuss and to prove when they’re neglecting Their eyes are doing nothing wrong you’re being an overbearing meddling grandparent
yep…..you certainly are the card carrying toxic Grandparent…..you just don’t know it….you just don’t WANT to know it.
the shoe fits……why not just go ahead and wear it
AB
NO….you will do what you’re TOLD.
and like it
That comment was for AB. Garbo parent and grandparent.
Yup. You are one of the toxic entitled the author is referring to!
You’re a real piece of crap grandparent. I cut my mom out of my life because of your behavior. I hope you get cut off too you wretch.
I totally agree with this grandparent. My grandson loved spending time with us. And not because we over spoiled him but because he had a confused life at home with stepparents on both sides and my son the father who never wanted to step in to be a parent. So when we stepped up everyone was happy except my son. Then he decided with his new wife to gain any little thing they could consider toxic. From his ex and anyone from his past relationships. All boiling down to them ripping him from our lives because we may have to give him too much milk? Too much love. His new wife laughed in my face. We got together with a mediator to see if things could be handled in a civil visitation order. Or even counseling. They said no to both. So sites and books and authors who write this no nothing about each individual case. Just another book to write. And giving parents false toxic ties. I have not seen my granson since he was 6 and whatever they told him he was scared of us. He lived across the street from us for another 2 years. Then they had a child of their own another son. I never held bonded . He will be turning 3. We hae tried everything to reconnect. My son wants nothing to do with us. These things written about grandparents being toxic. Find another subject to make the author feel good about his/her life please.
Are you spoiling the kids because it’s good for them or because it somehow makes you feel like you are a big shot?
Exactly!!!
L.O.V.E.
Interesting article. I’d also like to find one about parents who think its ok to literally dump their children off as much as possible onto grandparents for their own convenience?
Using manipulation and guilt tripping when told no?
Boundaries on both sides should be respected
Hi Belle,
I couldn’t agree more. Boundaries on both sides should be respected. Although I don’t have an article on this topic, I think you raise a valid point that parents’ behavior can also be manipulative or inconsiderate.
Lana
An interesting read. If you take these descriptions of toxic parents grandparents multiply it by a hundred and you have my mother. She belittled me all my life accuse me of things I didn’t do and latched on to my son the day he was born. She taught him to think of her as her savior, slapped me in front of him and turned him against me. She ruined my son and now he is a toxic adult child. My mother is dead now and can hurt me no further but the scars she left me with are deep. I have severe PTSD from her abuse when I was growing up and the way she interfered in my parenting I denied her access come past it
Don’t feel like the lone ranger, there, Teri…..you just described EXACTLY what happened with me and my kid…in every detail………except….I cut my losses and moved on and wrote them all out of my life…. I found out that my life and my career improved exponentially without them. I have no regrets. Some jerks will say that I ran away from “my responsibilities”….(nonexistent responsibilities)…..it falls on deaf ears.
Eventually, I found another wife…..I had another son, and raised him to be a fine young man….completely cut off from the toxic people that USED to be part of my life.
I am glad that I found this article….and as unfortunate as it is….I realize that I am not a special case, and there are others that have gone through this horrific experience…..good luck to you and I hope you get better….I mean that sincerely.
I get it, you can,t get along with anyone so you blame everyone else….hmmmm disrespectful too!
I also have gone through this they call I take the grandkids And it will be not for one night it’s 2 to 3 nights And then nothing for weeks and then when I called to say Hey I’d like to pick them up to take them out for a bit It’s like how dare youThe other famous thing they do is can you take the grandkids for the night and then I end up Nate and then I end up with them for 2 to 3 nights not Discussed previously so all our plans are dropped and put on hold But out of the blue if I was to book taken the kid taken the kids swimming I had no right to do I had no right to do that I should have called 1st I should have called 1st made plans I do feel very took an advantage of and boundaries I’m boundaries you’re absolutely right when it’s there when it’s their boundaries and they’re violating yours it’s OK bursh it’s ok because they’re the child But the other way you’re now the meddling overbearing toxic parent 🤷♀️ And I have Other kids with kids so now it becomes the oh but becomes oh she takes your kids more than my kids they love your kids more than my kids or the my kitchen if you’re going to keep acting like that keep acting like that you’re not going to be allowed to see your grandparents that’s the other thing they you’re ground parents that’s the other thing that gets told to my one set of grandkids how is that OK that’s abuse a that’s abuse you don’t use family members as a threat family members as a threat
More like toxic parentsWho in most cases seem to feel their entitlement and the like our entitlement and the LA life revolves around them and and women are not doing what they want Blunt it’s no longer you’re allowed to see your grandkids longer you’re allowed to see your grandkids to do what you want with your grandkidsYou need to call and you need to get permission when things aren’t going the way they want them to go
No one even mentioned the physical trauma you suffer from being in a toxic environment. The actual physical sickness and health problems that can be brought on. Nevermind the suicide attempts and successful suicides that parental alienation brings on. (Yes, grandparents alienate children from their parents all the time).
I agree that all of these things are signs of a toxic grandparent. Becoming a grandparent was very exciting for me. I know personally, I was a bit heavy-handed when it came to setting rules for dealing with my child for my own mom, largely based upon the belief that I was going to be a far better parent than her. Since my grandchild has been born, I’ve called my mom several times to apologize, even once in the middle of the night. Truth is, kids can be toxic in the handling of grandchildren. After all, they know how excited their parents are, and they’re still in a stage when they have yet to realize that despite all of their extensive efforts, they’ll ultimately become quite a bit like their own parents. It’s a weird time. For me, my child has refused gifts that even she loved as a child – Mercer Meyer books, etc. With a focus on Montessori type rearing, there was even a time where she eschewed certain toys because they introduced too much color. After a point, it can be overbearing. While I’m all for respecting a parent’s right to choose what’s right and what’s not right for their children, there is a point when graciousness comes in. Family isn’t perfect. Parents are perfect. Imperfect parents go on to become imperfect grandparents. What matters is love, good intentions, and a willingness to respect boundaries on both sides. Quite honestly – young parents still have a lot to learn. I say that as someone who was once a young parent. As much as I tried to better my mother – and many ways did, just as she did better than her own, I still went on to learn from my mother as the years went by. Writing grandparents off as toxic should only be done when they are legitimately harming the child and being manipulative. That said, if new parents only want to fill their kids’ lives with perfect people, their kids’ lives are going to be horribly short of familial relationships. In my culture and in the community I grew up in – the grandmother was the matriarch. As that role was removed – the family unit began to fall apart. My grandmother wasn’t perfect (my step-grandmother actually) – but she was awesome and an invaluable part of my life. As a grandmother myself – I still think fondly of her when canning food for long-term storage – or leveraging any other wisdom she shared. We’ve grown too fond of writing people off as toxic because they don’t fit into our special mold. All things said, I’m not quite sure if I’ve been written off as a toxic grandmother but I know I’ve reached the point where I’m done having that relationship micro-managed. It’s not worth the hassle. Moreover, there’s never been one mother, grandmother, step-grandmother in my life who was faced with the choice of either being micro-managed or not seeing her grandkids, nor one who would have tolerated it. I guess that’s cultural. Babies shouldn’t be leveraged. There are far too many babies shy on love. One of the best things about my grandmother (step-grandmother and obvious favorite) – was that she was a grandmother to everyone. At her funeral, countless people from the community stood up to say that even though she wasn’t biologically theirs, she was an amazing grandmother to them.
🙏🥰👍💞
What about when the father is the toxic one doing exactly what is described of what a toxic grandparent is.? How do the grandparent to handke the situation? The father of my grandchildren keeos me from seeing them when he is upset about something I may have done. I have a difficult situation because I raised my grandchildren till the age of 10. Father and mother were too self absorbed and I had to step in. I fed, clothed did every birthday party been to every school event, took them to school, picked them up until one day the father decided to step in and filed for full custody. I was heart broken but I went along with the judge’s order. It was hard not to be with them regularly. Now he slowly has been letting the children see less and less. I want to file for visitation rights because I worry constantly about their well-being. This is not your upstanding dad. He has belong to a gang and spent 2 years in prison for attack with a deadly weapon. Has abused and bear my daughter who developed ptsd from the avuse ahe endured. Has serious emotional problems from it. Please help me know what ahoukd I do. I am at a lost. They love me and are scarred of the father. It’s so hurtful and despairing.
I’m so sorry you’re going through this. Just to let everyone know grandparents’ rights are not black or white. It should always be in the best interests of children.
Hi Luiza,
I’m sorry you’re going through this. It must be so hard not to see these children after they’ve been with you for 10 years. And I agree, anyone can be toxic, it doesn’t have to be a grandparent.
My question is, if the father of your grandchildren is as dangerous and dysfunctional as you describe, why did the judge give him full custody? I would think that they look at factors like criminal record or history of abuse when they consider custody issues.
If you believe the father is abusive, you’ll have to prove it to the court. Is there any evidence? Or do you just want the kids back? I agree with Shari, you have to consider the best interests of the kids and act from that place.
Hoping everything will work out in the best way possible,
Lana
I have this exact problem. Everything you described is my mother. She threatened me and forced me to sign my parental custody rights to her because the father and I aren’t married. She showers our daughter in a ridiculous amount of toys and clothes to the point we are literally drowning in stuff. Junk food and excessive tv daily. I wanted to raise my daughter in a more loving and conscious way than how I was raised. I was trying to heal from a horrible car crash I was diagnosed with PTSD. My mother took advantage of me and I trusted her in my confusion. Now every single day she threatens to have me taken away from my daughter and she tells me her father can’t be in her life. I don’t even know where to begin to get help and get my life back. I was taken away from my home and brought back to my home state by force. My mother seems to be attempting to steal my identity and has even said that my daughter is her daughter. I’m tired of having someone else control my life. I am a loving person and I know it’s only a matter of time before my daughter is too groomed to even want me. I sat and watched my daughter open about 50 presents on her SECOND birthday. She couldn’t even handle it. How am I going to give her a normal life with such excess stimuli already being so prominent. My heart aches. If anyone knows what I can do to get custody back or get my daughter out of here with me and be with her father please don’t be afraid to give information. I don’t want to play victim or act like I didn’t somehow manifest this, I’m just wondering what I should do? I don’t have a job. I stay with my daughter and homeschool her and create art and write books. I’d like to publish my books and open a shop as well and have a nice home and garden. I just feel so lost and controlled by my own mother who hates me. I wish my father could help but he feels like he can’t stand up to her either.
Hi Divora,
so sorry you’re going through this. I agree, spoiling the child with materialistic things is one of the worst things you can do as a parent or a grandparent. You say your mother has custody of your daughter, so this is a legal issue at this point. I can’t speak on legal matters but I would say, try to get yourself better psychologically and emotionally so that the court can see that you’re a fit mother. Also, having a job is important, so you can show that you can support your daughter.
On a different note…don’t lose hope. Everything will work out in the end. Just continue learning and growing and being a positive influence in your daughter’s life. Even if the grandmother is unruly and unreasonable, you can still be the force that’s stronger in your daughter’s life. It’s wonderful that you create art and write books. Keep doing that! And publishing your books nowadays is a lot easier than it used to be! So if you look into that, you’ll find a lot of good options. Good luck to you, wishing you and your daughter well!
Lana
I’m a grandmother . my daughter and her fiancé have been together around ,14 yrs . They have 2 of the best, smartest 8 yr old son and 4 yr old daughter.His mother is torturing them to death. She has taken custody of both. It all started when she got mad because my daughter was in bed one Sunday with fever and ear infection. From then on she had stopped at nothing. My daughter and dad are the greatest parents. They are intelligent ,loving parents and great to be in the same family with. They have been tortured by the worst messages you could ever imagine. Called everything bad and horrible the woman can think of. They had a good family. Now she’s taken the kids. They were evicted from their home of 14 yrs over lies in court and all. They have no home now, no money , no anything. They’ve stuck together trying so hard but nothing had worked. Now her threat today is they are going to jail and she means it she said. In a text. I have been out of my mind too. I miss the babies. They were my kids too. I did what the parents wanted. I gave special thgs at Nanas sometimes but nothing like she would buy. They didn’t care they worshiped me and mom and dad. I don’t see them or get to talk but once on speaker phone to both kids talking at same time ,for couple minutes the they had to go. I’m dying inside and out. I can’t imagine how mom and dad feel inside. They look wore out. So sad. I pray day and night for the kids , mom and dad, all of us. I think of the things the kids are hearing about their precious parents. She doesn’t mind screaming , cussing parents in front of kids. They are being tortured too. And that is just a little of it. So u can imagine the things in their minds. Oh my. This is inhuman to me to see such s person have control of that many lives. She has destroyed everything they built those 14 yrs. Destroyed their family. It will never be the same. They don’t know where to turn. She will make up something to have them go to jail. They don’t have a record of any kind like that. She’s totally not fit for those babies to be with. She’s not fit to be near the family ever. But she took that family and she’s not stopping. Please somebody give some input to something they can do. If you know of Someone who can help them in any way in this world please let us know. This woman needs major help . its not too late for them if something can be done with this horrible person. She’s the fiancé’s real mother. He said she was always that kind of mom. Hes a great person. She was lucky to have a son that was responsible from the time they graduated High school til now 31 yr old great man. I met him when he was young teenager. Even a good boy. She never saw it though and still don’t. She’s putting them in an early grave if they don’t get a way to get rid of her she’s gonna completely get rid of them. My daughter is precious as all jewels in the world. Wonderful inside and out. Now I worry if she’s gonna make it til the next day. Her brothers and sister and myself are trying to comfort and do what we can praying ,loving them, giving them space. I’m scared for the kids and the parents. I’m 61 and not well medically myself . please anyone your advise and any information you can give will be so dearly appreciated. Thank you for letting me get a little out about crazy unfit people able to take such control of others lives. Help. Dangerous to others. In ways we never imagined. The woman is everything you described and oh so so much worse. I wish you all the best of luck on getting your own lives back too . something has to be done to stop grandparents like this. Bless you all. The Nana
I have the exact same problem how did you deal with them
What about grandparents that have nothing to do with the kids unless the other parent has them? My ex husband and I have 3 children. He only gets them maybe once a month if that. He lives in another town but his parents live here. They NEVER call the kids at all. (I am not petty I would not deny them wanting to talk to/see the kids) No phone calls on birthdays etc. Yet the grandmother had the audacity to spread lies at her work about me, saying I ran off and left the kids for 3 months (their dad had them for 2 weeks 1 of which was Thanksgiving 2 years ago while my husband and I were moving into a new home) that my ex husband was going to go to court to try and take the kids, things in that nature is what she always spreads lies about but nowhere her nor their father are really involved, her the least.
Hi Elizabeth,
I call this type of toxic grandparent “indifferent,” and I have a separate post about them: https://toxicties.com/indifferent-grandparents/
Yes, unfortunately, some grandparents don’t want to be involved in their grandchildren’s life. In your case, said grandparents also launched a smear campaign trying to paint you as a bad mother. I would say, your kids are probably better off without those people in their lives…
I live with my parents I’m 21. I had my daughter when I was 20. I had a rough pregnancy so I needed help at first so I had my mother help me, I was exhausted, it’s my first child. It was nice to have help at first but now my daughter is 6 months old I’ve got a hang of what she needs, what her cries mean. And I’m starting to get a hang of it. My mom undermines me as a parent. I was asleep for 45 min tonight and I woke up to see my mother in our room holding my daughter saying her nose is stopped up get your lazy as up. A fact about my daughter she gets up at 6am and goes constantly moving crawling bouncing with no naps till 11 or 12 at night, and you can’t clean her nose why she’s awake or she’ll scream till she’s sick so I told my mother to lay her down beside me and when she fell asleep I would clean her nose. My mother proceeds to say I’ll just hold her up on that fuck it and stop through the house with my child like a two year old. She does stuff like this all the time and when I say something to her response is I have raised five kids by myself none of y’all died did you
Hi Anonymous,
I have a 4-year old daughter so I still vividly remember what it’s like to have a 6-month-old baby. It’s incredibly exhausting and demanding. It’s great that your mom helps you but she’s doing it in a way that’s demeaning to you. Parents (or grandparents) are quick to say that they know what they’re doing because they’ve raised kids of their own. But parenting is so different nowadays. So this isn’t the last thing your mom and you are going to disagree on. With that in mind, let her know, respectfully but firmly, that while you appreciate her help, you won’t tolerate being undermined. She raised her kids. Now it’s your turn to be a mom.
It’s ok if you don’t approve my post, its ok if you don’t even read it, however, what do I have to say? Well…
I must laugh at many of the things you say about grandparents. For example, you seem to think if a grandparent doesn’t remember a painful moment from their childhood, the grandparent is either lying s or conveniently forgets the things they’ve done from their parenting days. Do you even know anything about human interaction, emotions, development or what happens as a person age? How about perspective? People in this country need to get over their ‘crappy’ childhoods. We all have them at one point or another. My mom couldn’t even remember when I slapped her and called her a b**** when I was a teenager, and it bothered me all my life. Turns out, she either remembers the situation differently, or there was more than one incident. She told me how bad she has always felt because she slapped me when I was a teenager and she called me a b****.
I had a paradigm shift when my father was elderly and in a care center. He was treated well there, however he was an alcoholic who made my life miserable as a child and still was as I was an adult, but I would not give up on him and took him out of the care center every chance I could so we could have a wonderful day. Every time, no fail, we would be on our way back to the care center, and the verbal assaults would ensue. I would let him go on & on, after all, he was elderly, and I wasn’t a small child anymore. One time when I took him back, I said to the nurses & other staff, how deeply sorry that they had to put up with my ornery old dad. I stood there in shock as they said things like “Who Jess? He is a sweetheart!”, “Oh we just love him!” I was floored! I wanted to say “My Dad? We’re talking about MY dad.” Yeah, I looked at him differently after that. I was even able to forgive him for the pain & havoc he caused in my life. I let it all go and didn’t have any regrets like my brothers did.
Yes, I know there are some very toxic grandparents out there. There are also toxic parents out there, and adult children that are toxic to their parents! Please learn not to judge or be so harsh and have a little more compassion and understanding of others. Let children enjoy their grandparents, all of which are not toxic. lol
The 21 yr. old, living with her mom, probably eating her mom’s food, watching tv and sleeping all day… you see what I did there? We don’t know the entire story. Perhaps the young mother is overwhelmed, perhaps she is spoiled and lazy. We don’t know but sounds like grandma is still raising her kid. I was a single mom at 21, gift from my date rapist. I worked my butt of to keep the small trailer I bought when I was 19. It was only a $3,000 loan but at the time, it was big to me. My daughter and I lived alone until her stepdad came into the picture & lived alone again after I left. Did my Mom spoil my daughter when she went to Grandmas? Yup, and I would have given anything to have had a granny in my life. Anyway, I made it through life ok, so did my daughter. My grandkids are grown now and still have an incredibly good relationship with me. When the 18-year-old grandson comes out to see me, he asks things like “Grandma, can I rearrange your cupboards?” They are all good kids, all 4 of them. Just please, try not to come off so sharp sounding and accept that some people reading your column don’t have bad parents who are worse grandparents, but sometimes the parents of the smile child need to grow up too. As I said in the beginning, it’s ok if you don’t approve my post, its ok if you don’t even read it, I just feel much better now that I’ve said all of that.
Thank you!
Dear Lana,
I note you do not refer to toxic daughters-in -law or indeed narcissistic ones , and husbands who, once there are children involved , come under their control…not manly to run to Mummy! So his parents get shoved aside and labelled as toxic. In all this finger pointing there is nothing for the child: it loses by the toxic atmosphere generated by its own parents, learns not to love or forgive or understand, and is deprived of a whole new world. reactions regarded as ‘toxic’ seem to emerge from frustration and a failure to communicate. You do EXTREME MISCHIEF when you seek to make this an issue and buy into the process of cancelling people – with little regard for individual cases. But, hey, it sells books, and justifies there `MEGHAN `MARKLE approach to dealing with family.
Dear Candace,
there are a lot of offended grandparents here who accuse me of destroying families, etc. But even if the label “toxic grandparent” offends you, at the end of the day, the article itself focuses on specific problematic behaviors, and many of them are indefensible. So if the shoe fits…then maybe it’s a chance for some self-reflection.
And you’re right, “toxic daughters-in-law or indeed narcissistic ones” do exist and maybe one day I’ll write about them, too. But this article is about grandparents.
I would like for you to know that as it probably true that people exist that are toxic there is two sides to every story and your opinions of how grandma or grandpa can be so toxic your ideations of toxicity is very easily taken out of text and for many confused young parents who take things out of text because they listen to people like you and then cut off their parents and their whole families because of your lies and psycho advice has RUINED whole entire families!! You must have obviously had a very messed up childhood to put such crazy ideations on the net . A lot of people are so nieve and mislead by this that it is literally ruining lives so I hope you are happy because you are sick! Sure there may be some psycho grandparents in the world that don’t need to be around kids period but there are very good ones in the world whom have done nothing but live their Kids and grandkids but their children are confused by your psycho twisted ideas . Grandparents who’s lives with their grandkids are being destroyed because of YOU! ! So I wonder how you sleep at night ! You are a discussing disgrace and You should be ashamed of yourself because of the lives you have and are destroying! You are pure EVIL!!!
Thank you! I’m with you on that. I felt sick when I read all that toxic stuff. What about all those grandmas who are treated like doormats , and CONSTANTLY bite their tongue to keep the peace .
Chris…
1) Get a spell checker
2) Put a sock in it
Your irrational, hostile overreaction to this article is probably your own guilt manifesting itself.
in other words……The hurt dog always hollers.
Good thing her lies CANNOT change history or the TRUTH. Ridiculous. I wouldnt bat an eye nor care who says what about me esp if its not true. Over time people see the truth for what it is. Entitled liars like that don’t realize most ppl can read inbetween the lines. Karma. Relax and enjoy your babies!!
Anyone who has had a toxic MIL understands this article.
I made the huge mistake of let her take care of my child some days a week. Now he is 3. I can not regret it more. If I could just go back in time…
She did not respect my rules about uprising, he lied in front of my eyes, she buys all the time sweets and gifts (when told not to do it) and of course, she hates me.
I would love to cancel the relationship but its not that simple… She is a ‘soul’s buyer’ and makes sure everybody loves her giving them a lot of attention and gifts… (Her sons, friends, family members…) And she plays the victim game.
I am the bad in this movie, and his husband, and everyone who is not agree with her.
Advice: At the first sign of disagreement, choose child care. The sooner, the better.
Here is something that may help a little : Recipe box analogy
Imagine a box holding all of the people in your life.
The box contains family, friends, distant relatives, coworkers and passerby‘s
It’s your box!
There are only a few rules that apply
Place the people in the front of your box that are ones that add to your life in a positive way. It could be a blood relative or it could be a friend or sibling.
The people in the back of the box are people that don’t add To your life in a positive way. If it’s a friend or coworker that no longer adds to your life you can actually remove that recipe from the box and never have to deal with it again. But the most important rule is, if they are family, a blood relative, they must remain in the box but they can be placed in the very back  .
Keep people that add happiness to your life in the front of your recipe box and the people that drain you in the back or remove them from the box completely.
You are jealous of her; you are jealous of her relationship with your child; you are jealous that you had to go out to work and she gets to stay home with the kid. Have you thought that if everyone else loves her…it might be you? TALK to her, and tell her how you feel – tell her why you don’t want him to eat sweets; ask her what alternatives she could do re foods etc. Explain your boundaries. Bottom line, which most women fail to realise is that children want and love their mothers and fathers more than anything in the world; more than anyone else in the world. But to extend that love to a grandparent is to offer your child a treasure trove of information opportunity and love . But learn how to handle it and THEM if they get too excited about their role! Good LucK
I stand with you, I have the same problems with my MIL: she *always* goes against my rules, even if I protest. Gives my children the feeling that my rules are boring and useless:
– “6 years old wants a 2nd soda in a row during dinner, and mum just said no? Poor sweethart, you get it anyway from granny, cause mum is not nice uh”…
-“Hey Jen, are you sure you want a 2nd baby, cause at your age you know, you might get some issues”…
– “Dear Son, there’s just one piece left of your fav dish, please eat it all, we already had some yesterday : you’ll love it, it’s delicious! And Jen will have some canned food while watching you enjoying your meal”…
– “Oh so Mum told you not to watch this show that’s rated ‘not under 10y.o.’? Who cares, come watch it with granny, that’s ok even if you’re only 6 years old”…!!!
This vile old witch is killing me and my family slowly but surely.
Her son? Totally alienated, he fears her so much that he would accept really anything, even if it hurts his own children.
Separation? And then she gets to ruin my kids halftime? No way!! The war is long but I won’t surrender. Even if it drives me more and more crazy every day.
Good luck to all victims of these pervs, may God help us… 🙏
Thank you for this article ! we have a toxic grandfather that has alienated both his children and all but 1 of his grandchildren . The ” groomed ” grandchild is now getting married in March and wants his grandfather there . On one hand I can’t imagine toxic grandfather putting himself in a position to face the majority of the family that doesn’t speak to him and on the other hand I know the narcissist is always the victim and will show up . He will have to face the grooms brother after not attending their wedding and will also have to see ( from afar) a great grand child he wasn’t aware of . My husband is devastated that he may be placed in the same vicinity as his toxic father. I’m not sure if our son knows the extreme of what could happen as we have encouraged to maintain a relationship with his grandfather . I’d appreciate any advice . It’s a destination wedding and my hopes are covid and restrictions will keep him home
I’m so glad I found this article. I have two grandchildren. A boy, 8 (9 this month) , nit my sons biological child, but has raised him since he was about 18 months old, snd a girl, 5 (6 in May). I have only been allowed to see them when they have their birthday parties & because of COVID it is going on 3 years since I have seen them. When I do get to see them, my granddaughter always asks me .”who are you” how do I know you”. From the the very first time my youngest son , my oldest sons 1/2 brother, and I. Went to spend Easter with his fiancé family for brunch at her parents , than wasted dinner at her Aunts. She was 7-8 months pregnant with my granddaughter. My son and I thought her family was very welcoming and we had a very nice time. But I noticed when my mom snd I went to see my granddaughter the day she was born, obvious coldness coming from my sons wife and her mother. I had wrote to both her snd her aunt thanking them for a lively time at Easter and brought each some chocolates for Easter. She would barely look at me. It took 7 months for my son to allow me and his brother to come up for a visit some his brother could meet his niece . His wife was getting ready to go somewhere anxd she spoke to my son but would barely look at me. I had had a Mother’s Day necklace made for her for Mother’s Day thst I brought with me, which I face her, she left it there and left the house . I ask my eldest son asid I do something to upset his wife because it sure felt pretty cold there’s he just made up excuses about jhow shy she was.‘Ii didn’t get to see my son or grandkids again until there wedding in September 2017. My last visit with my youngest son was 10/2016.
It took 2-3 years for my son to finallly tell me that his father in law believed I was on drugs at Easter and wasn’t safe for me to be around my grandkids alone. I barely spoken more than a few words to him or saw him at the aunts house snd to make a accusation based ion my past from a that time I had been clean 23-24 years, but he was a nurse, so my son believed him. I was so upset about thiis. No one in her family bothered to get to know me any of the few times I was there , and he going to judge me like that without knowing anything about me. After this, I was lied to about my granddaughter have a birthday party for her first birthday , I found pictures on Facebook . So I didn’t get to see them again until my grandsons 5th birthday and. My granddaughter 2nd birthday, my mom came with me. The following year,, I believe my mom came with me, but the last birthday I saw them , my mom was unable cto come and Oncexagsin i was accused by my sons mother in law this time of being on drugs. Never had my son or his wife acccused me until one of her parents do it. We were stArting to work things out and planning to meet when her mom sent me a very mean note on messenger on what a selfish , bad person I was, and I needed to get my drug problem under control snd how I never help them out and if I want yo learn how to be a grandmother to let her know . I have never been allowed to help them out ever, except financially, even when I haven’t really had to money to do it. I never to this say have had my grandkids allonsceitb me at my house, and I have mot received a birthday invite for this years birthday, so either he’s not having in or I’m not incitedz it’s been three years now snd I miss’s them do much,. I’m good enough to send them gifts but not good enough to see them for any holiday or any other time. My son never calls me even after having major back surgery. I am so hurt by the whole situation , and this is not the relationship my son snd I have had in the past. He has never hurt me like he has mow and keeping me from my grandkids is just plain cruel . He knows I’ would bever harm them snd tgst I would never usd again . I don’t feel like a grandmother.! I gsvectskunfvso much hurt for my son from hos dad so he wouldn’t have to, snd I can’t take much more. I have t almost forget about him and just put them all out of my head or I go crazy. So, there are toxin people out there snd her family especially her parents are ! They deliberately do or ssu things just at the tome they see my son snd I and hos wife starting to work things out. Just plain evil.
“Nice” is not a virtue.
If one wants to test the quality of a grandparent or parent relationship, try setting a reasonable personal boundary. If they spiral from that or explode, deny, gaslight, or okay the victim- they are toxic.
This article is spot on- thank you. Grandparents who are offended at this article for disturbing some facade of family “peace” might consider taking an honest look at if they do indeed have boundary issues. Healthy people aren’t afraid to consider they might be one with the problem.
Healthy relationships have mutual respect and healthy boundaries.
Thanks for this truthful and necessary article that helps give adults the tools and encouragement to set boundaries for the protection of themselves and their children.
Family “peace” at all costs, and valuing “niceness” over respect for personal boundaries and other people’s decisions isn’t true peace at all- nor is it living with integrity….it is abuse.
Thank you, ML! I couldn’t have said it better myself. More often than not toxic behaviors are tolerated in the families. People would rather not “rock the boat” and they let things slide, even when it’s abuse or bordering on abuse. We need to take this seriously and stand up for our children, our partners, and ourselves. Thanks for reading!
You know your right about everything. I never thought I was a toxic grandmother but reading the article I am ashamed. My daughter cur me out of her and my drab daughters lives and I took her to court for access, which was granted. However, I always thought I done my best for everyone obviously I was totally wrong and blamed my daughter. She is now the happiest I have seen her and living her life without me. I have therefore decided to leave the whole family alone as she has requested as well has no access to the children involved. I honestly didn’t realise my actions and their consequences and confirm I have been totally selfish thinking I was helping. Remorseful nana and mother and my daughter is right I am ashamed of myself and I have to accept it is what it is unfortunately
Hi Sheila,
Most people in your situation are not willing to acknowledge their mistakes or failings, and I think you deserve a lot of credit for taking responsibility for your actions. I wish you and your family healing, and I sincerely hope that you reconcile with your daughter 🙏
Kudos to you for recognizing. and understanding That is not the typical process . It takes a kind sole to realize and do what you did .
If only all grandparents in that situation could gracefully accept accountability. If i were your daughter- just hearing the words that you do actually understand and have grown to see this would change EVERYTHING. Good luck to you on your life journey!!! We all have blind spots- thats what its all about. Living and learning. Wish you and your daughter both the best and healing! xx
This!!! 👌
Hi,
My parents decided “no contact” was best bc my grandparents were abusive. My grandparents teased and tormented my sister for being molested as a child and decided she was just slutty. That is abuse! What you described are grandparents who love their grandchildren and don’t know how to properly show it. My MIL is pushy and arrogant but she loves my kids. She makes me crazy and hits every single box you listed but she is not abusive. Articles like this drive immature young parents to cut off ties to people who love them. I have so many friends who have read articles like this and cut off loving in-laws. Do better and stop playing on young parent’s fears.
Lisa,
there’s no universal yardstick that can tell you that it’s right to go no contact with someone. It’s a personal decision for each family involved; and a difficult one at that.
You can’t say: those parents are immature because my grandma was so much worse. It’s their right; their decision. And believe me, it’s not made based on some article they’ve read online.
This blog is just a sketch. An approximation of someone’s experience. These families, these parents KNOW what they went through or still going through. Don’t judge them. Don’t minimize their pain. Give them the benefit of the doubt that they know what they’re doing, and that they’re acting in their children’s best interests.
I agree. A very one sided article, especially the comment that any grandparent who seeks grandparent rights must be toxic. It’s not unlikely that the author just didn’t like something her mother/father or in-law suggested in concern, or the way her children loved the grandies and decided the term ‘toxic’ fit. Not one word of all the scads of research that shows lack of grandparent relationship is much more toxic and damaging.
Nearly mirrored my thoughts. So much damage can be done through these types of posts. I’ve known some that lost family connections for themselves and the following generations over such things. That’s robbing of the gift of family, togetherness, a place to belong. Some realize much too late. Some see things differently with the wisdom age brings.
These things hurt my heart, for many.
I absolutely agree with you, I had my grandaughter for the best part of her first 8 years. We had holidays regular she learn’t hobbies was well educated and happy , self confident and knew her value. Her Mother was more interested in facebook, the pub and her friends. The second grandchild came along and the Mother had a shock that Motherhood was now real as she skimmed so easy threw the first one. She Tried to force a 1 year old onto me by banning the 8 year olds visitation without me taking the youngest ( bare in mind i was then 8 years older than the first time round but my health didnt matter, the safety of the baby didn’t mattee) I love them both dearly but I picked up the pieces of one child and put her back together weekly from emotional abuse and that has exhausted me emotionaly. No services to help nobody would listen as im.jist a Nan, the schools wouldnt help,. The eldest was being driven around in the footwell of cars but nobody wanted to help me. I now feel 30 years older not 8 and ive just this month had all access cut off. The mother didnt realise to her self ohh theres a Toxic grandparent she just realised as a grandparent I provide everything that she is to lazy to provide. There is 2 children now locked in a home rarely going out and no friends as friends ask questions and get to close to the thier home. The children have been told what happens at Mums stays at Mums but the eldest doesnt want to live there. Her education is of no importance nor her selfworth, she is scared to leave her now 5 year old brother due to the verbal abuse. Then you have websites like these who feed ideas into minds such as thier Mothers and allow them to think that after stripping thier children of almost everything that is Human they can then feel justified to remove the last bits of hope the kids have to belive they have a voice, that they are valued and that they have a right to evolve in education and self belief. You can advertise its ok to bust up a childs family unit but i hope you promote just as much for good change to Grandparents rights while you do.
All parents make mistakes ALL.
Here is my story.
I fell in love with my best friend, we got preganant. Had our first girl on xmas morning. 360 days later our second two years later our boy, 367 days later our 3rd girl. I didnt start to get abused until my second pregnancy. Headbutting choking name calling, cheated on. Not allowed to talk to anyone about it. Just to get out of the house my best bet was to offer a sexual favor. His family however i seen as amazing compared to my family. Weekend get toethers everones bdays celebrated together. I didnt realize till i left because he had beat me so badly broke my nose, fractured my eye socket and in a previous fight nicked my jaw out of olace and niw have tmj. Hen i awoke after the beating i didnt even know who i was for at least two minutes and almost ten to remember what happened to me. His mother wanted me to stay his step father talked me into leaving. But now after being seperated he has alienated me from my oldest since 2018 and now my younger three since 2019 i have been affraid of him again since 2015 when i had won by default and he threatened to hire five lawyers make everyone beleive i was crazy and unfit and he would win custody and i would never see my kids again or maybe i would just come up missing one day. His mother and i have always been very close and my children and i were inseperable. He showered them with gifts and candy told them not to listen to me and told i was not a good mother. My life took a turn for hell my living lityle family where we all worked as a team and were so happy and all got along i barely had to raise my voice turned for the exact oposite my kids were hitying eachother and had becone bullies and over emotional would not mind would not do anytging asjed and would deliberatly do naughty things they had never done before and knew it was wrong. Then it came oyt that his gf had been molesting my younger two and he may have been with my oldest letting her dress inappropriatly and his new gf at the time said he was crazy he had no parenting skills and his relationshio with my oldest was highly inappropriate and was very different ftom the other three. He has died almist two months ago i was asked to wait to pick up my kids until after the funeral i did and now there is a guardianship hearing and iam said to be on drugs. I have got to talk to two of my kids by phone since june last year and seen them once for two days since may2019 and my oldest 4 days since june of 2018 his mother will kot talk to me and his stepfather is now acting just like he did. He has left me and the kids with enough to take care of us and they want it. I now have to go to trial and its all in probate so i may not get my kids back for a long time. At what point do you think a mother is at her wits ends and what do you claasify as verbal abuse i feel that my oldest became a bully and turned against me because she was told if i ever found out about the molestation they would never see him again. It is now a decision i have to maje to allow visotation after all this is over or to have 0 contact. This at no time has ever crossed my mind until now. At what point when grandparents do not just raise concerns but completly alienate a mother whom she knows loves those kids and i have raised them alone since day one even being there with him, does one need to wonder if they are the toxic oerson they are being unreasonalbe and unfit themselves.
This article is spot on! I agreed with every single point. You really explained it directly and realistically. You can definitely tell from the comments who’s a toxic grandmother. My parents are so bad at relationships in general; with friends, family, each other…they need mental health help but refuse it. Why is it acceptable to screen, interview and do background checks on daycare workers, but for grandparents watching your children they get a free pass? Because we have the same last name? It’s irresponsible and not in the best interest of the child. If there was an unstable daycare worker doing *any* of these actions in your article, they’d be fired and probably sued. But toxic grandparents don’t have any accountability. It’s twisted. And yes, whether it’s a bad boyfriend or bad Mom or bad Grandparent; they’re still unstable humans. Not a lot of people have experienced a toxic family member, and I tell them, that’s good and I’m happy for you. But not all parents are the same unfortunately.
Yes, Kasey. Toxic grandparents should be able to report to child abuse. I had my daughter in 1968. At that time most babies were given up for adoption. I was 19 and had a very good job to leave my parents’ house and care for her myself. My parents insisted she stay in their home with or without me. I was physically and verbally abused by my father since I can remember. I even got punished for falling because I’d have to go to the doctor for stitches. I was always scared to death of my father. Now with my daughter if I didn’t do what he said his threat would be he would take her away from me for being an unfit mother. I always assumed responsibilities in buying my own car, paying all expenses I was responsible for. I even had to save for 3 months ahead to make sure my car wouldn’t be reposted when pregnant. Basically, my father enjoyed beating me up even in front of my daughter. My uncle, my father’s brother, confronted my father and said he was taking me to live with him and my cousins. Naturally my father threatened him and that was that.
Now my daughter saw the way my father treated me and was told he was the one she had to listen to because he was the boss. He belittled me in front of my daughter for her first 3 years. Looking back now that he passed, I can’t explain why I was so frightened of him and was so scared he would take my daughter legally. I saw many doctors and told them he had to be bipolar. He was abused as a child.
Now, my daughter and I moved to a very nice house when I got married. My father went off. He went to my wedding but would not even pay for my cake. My husband and I paid for the entire wedding.
For 40 years I thought my brother was my daughter’s godfather. I was not allowed to go to the Christening. Come to find out my father became godfather. What a shock. My brother told me when he finally discussed me being raped by my father since my father controlled my daughter. I was totally shocked. My father NEVER raped me. I knew my daughter’s father but we never married. My brother seeing how my father controlled my daughter made him think all those years he was the father.
My daughter became a problem in school and I was forced to take her out since it was a parochial school. My daughter stole in school and when I was called in the teacher said my daughter needed psychiatric care. I KNEW she took the treasury money and sternly told her I wasn’t stupid and she had better return the money. What she got from both her grandparents was sympathy that she was accused of something she wouldn’t do. In front of her she was told I was no mother not believing her. She was told I was a problem since I was young and she didn’t have to listen to someone who was a slut. She was told they had to pick her up as a baby from Catholic Charities because they would not release her to me. The truth was I had to keep her in Catholic Charities to get everything necessary to bring her home. I went to work immediately after she was born. My parents would not even buy her a safety pin. I had to go to Catholic Charities to sign a release form so my parents could pick her up because I had to be at work. To make the rest short, when older and living with my husband when visiting my parents they let her smoke joints at their house as long as it was outside (I knew she was drinking and smoking but didn’t realize they allowed her to do.) I never even tried a drug in my entire life.. Naturally she started other drugs and was with a bad crowd. One time I punished her by telling her to stay in her room because I found Coke in my mailbox. She called my father, he walked into MY house, went to her room, put her coat on and walked her down tge stairs out of MY house telling her I was not the boss. If I reported him he would have fought tge system and assured me he would take her from me, especially since I was having her live with 3 stepbrother. My husband’s wife died very young from Leukemia.
To date I have not seen my daughter for 11 years. She is 52 and still is in the drug scene with her bum of a husband. She lives in I’m a totally dilapidated house that should be ball and craned. She quit school at 15 because I attended more than she did always be called in. The teachers sbd guidance councilor said they needed a break. I had no choice but to sign. I was a mess and started getting panic attacks. My parents had me banned from her wedding, even hiring a policeman. I feel so bad for her how she lives. She grew up in an upper class neighborhood and I just don’t understand how she can live the way she does. I would have even helped her when buying a house. I gave her everything she wanted and needed. My parents never took care of her financially. THAT was my job since I had a very high paying job working for one of the top litigators in the Lawyes Weekly. I worked with all of Dr. Bose’s speaker systems. My father was bullshit I was making more than him. I was always the available mother taking my daughter and her friends everywhere. My daughter knew if she wanted something she’d just have to be loving to me and I’d cave and get what she wanted.
When my father needed to be cared for I cared for him every day. I stayed at my parents’ house and made trips home to check on the house. My husband died young from clogged arteries. Before my father died he said “You really hate me, don’t you?”
He was then diagnosed as bipolar. Now I have no daughter. If I explained the whole situation she would not believe a word I said. I tried explaining why my parents picked her up when a baby and she was told I was a liar straight to my face. She was told I was no good and anything I told her would be a lie. I’m 72 now and finally stopped crying for the little baby I couldn’t give up for adoption.
Bree, are you her daughter? You are one nasty toxic lady. Grandchildren need their grandparents, not as much as their parents, but still need that continuity in their lives. It’s hard to be 73 and alone and in a nursing home. Kids are great for grandparents–there’s an innate understanding between them. How dare you speak to this woman this way!! Children aren’t YOURS, sweetheart. They are separate beings who need all the love they can get from all the adults in their lives. The SIL sounds like a jealous bully who gets a thrill out of hurting a senior, and the DIL is a hyperbolic drama queen. You, well I feel sorry for your kids if you have any, and I feel sorry for her grandchildren. Why are people so mean?
Children definitely benefit from the continuity of family and history. We all have quirks in our families; there’s not one perfect one.
The pain I see as elder people pass with no family near is devastating for me. I can’t imagine going through end of life that way. We do have an innate bond; families are a community built on generation after generation. When a piece of the puzzle is missing, families suffer. We all need as many people to love and be lived as possible in this crazy world. We are forgetting that we soon will get our place at the helm and wisdom is earned. It is God created.
I have also seen bad behaviors from older people because of the treatment from their children, or lack of connection with them.
I think of this tune sometimes, for those I care for and see struggle with loneliness- “say something, say something I’m giving up on you. I’m giving up on you..” speaks of profound heartbreak. They did the best they could.
This article and similar articles are very dangerous to our families. Our young, uneducated, and some with mental illness are overreacting to the content!! It causing horrible problems with families. Horrible. Just horrible
I agree fullheartedly.
I see a lot of people blaming the victim for applying the “no contact” solution, but they probably never experienced such trauma with a relative.
I was actually raised by my grandparents. My grandmother was like a mother for me, but I can’t say the same about my psychopath grandfather (and I’m not just throwing words, he ticks all boxes). He was always mentally and emotionally abusing me. Body shaming me for being too skinny, or always being angry on me for basically doing kids stuff. After my grandma died (I was 10 years old), things got a lot worse. He started dating a 50 years younger woman (Yes, FIFTY years difference) who was leeching off him, and turned him against his familiy.
After years enduring his treatment, while he constantly reminded me that he raised me, that I’m his “investment”, and without him I would be basically dead, I finally grew up and left for a new life away from him.
Few months ago, I poured my heart out to him, and called out all of his emotional abuse during my childhood. He found a way to throw the guilt on me…
After seeing that, I ended all contact with him, and I distanced myself (the coronavirus helped with that).
But even so, he still tries to denigrate me in front of his acquaintances. Playing the victim, he constantly posts childhood photos of me on his facebook profile (without my consent) where he brags about me like everything I achieved in my life is because of him, and I’m the ungrateful grandson who never visits him.
As for the time of this comment, these things still happen, and I have no power to do anything about it.
It’s really frustrating and consuming. It’s more frustrating when you tell everything that’s happening to you to your friends, and when they meet the person in cause, they tell you “How can you say that things about this sweet elderly man?”
This is just the gist of it, there’s A LOT more to tell. One could write a book about it..
Hi Andrew!
Thank you so much for sharing your story. You know, you’ve hit the nail of the head. When you go no contact with an abusive grandparent (or an abusive parent, same thing) people are often shocked. And they will judge and shame the victim, because the abuser is so skilled at manipulating other people’s perceptions.
You did the right thing to distance yourself from your grandfather. You also should be very proud of yourself for confronting him about all the mistreatment you’ve experienced. It takes a lot of courage! Not everyone can do that. And regardless of the response you’ve received, this is a big step in your healing. So proud of you!
Lana
This article sounds like it was literally written using my mother, two of my aunts and paternal grandmother as research subjects. They’re all SPOT ON to the characteristics being described here.The article doesn’t specify buy I noticed there is a different between toxic fathers and toxic mothers once their children are grown and out of the home. I come from an immigrant family where our country of origin is RIFE with child abuse and parents essentially treating their kids worse than stray dogs. Toxic fathers (myself, many friends and two of my ex’s have typical CLASSIC abusive violent fathers) will either go into a hole to hide in shame, pretend you don’t exist and simply let you abandon them once you reach adulthood OR they will apologize and try to repair things by making an attempt to respect you.
Toxic mothers and grandmothers are totally different. Literally ALL of my friends, family and every adult I know with an abusive father has no contact with their father and the fathers are making no attempt to contact them. Myself included. However literally all of us save for a few are still in yo-yo relationships with our mothers and grandmothers who abused us as children and IT’S 100% based on manipulation, playing the victim, pretending that they did nothing wrong as parents and we “need therapy” or “need to grow up and accept we’re now almost 40”. One of my cousins went no-contact after his 1st child was born because he didn’t want the child to see family drama and within days is mother was “having trouble breathing” and was messaging the entire family about how “we were all letting her die without seeing her grandchild”. It’s disgusting .
You, my dear, are the exception. There are a few of us. Lucky for me, my mom did not pass, but my stepfather was as creepy as what you describe. I tolerated him occasionally, when I visited mom. I prayed for him. He was ugly anyway. Thankfully, he is gone. I kept my children as far away as possible.
I am not saying this is the case, for you, but on reading several articles, I have seen some say the internet coming so fast changed our language. Sometimes, people don’t mean to offend, it’s just a different language being spoken/understood
My 9-year-old came to me and said her grandmother treats her 5-year-old sister like trash and yells at her and punishes her constantly, while praising her. She also told my 5-year-old that her sister has a different dad and your only half sisters. Needless to say, my 5-year-old was confused and my 9-year-old was upset that her grandmother had said this. She came home and told me and I addressed the issues with my ex-mother-in-law and of course she denied that it was said that way and accused my eldest of bringing it up. Mind you I have set boundaries about these issues when my eldest was a toddler, and insisted she not even engage in conversation surrounding these issues, that it was my responsibility as their mother and when at appropriate age I would address, but we don’t believe in labels, especially half anything, they are sisters, the end. I later left girls with her to go to the store down the road and she confronted my eldest about telling me, and when she left my daughter broke down crying saying she never wants to see her again. I had to explain to both my girls I will always protect them and that is when I finally cut ties with my ex-mother-in-law. Btw, her son, my ex died from an overdose when my daughter was 2 and he was extremely abusive to me and she enabled him. I tried to be the bigger person and allow contact thinking if her son was not in picture she’d be different. Boy was I wrong.
This a truely awful site with really awful ideas.
You are not nice and the grandparents are being hurt by your selfisness. I was at a class and walked in to hear 3 grandparents discussung this type of treatment. I was shocked. I thought someone was spreading rumors about me. But no they were all talking about their own situation. Sad. This generation really are not nice.
This generation is really not nice?? I am a 55-year-old mother of two sons and grandmother of one grandson. What is not nice is the very sinister, diabolical, and brainwashing tactics that my (and MANY other mothers-then grandmothers) very own narcissistic “mother” inflicted upon my 1st born son for his entire lifetime, literally. He DIED of an overdose at 36 years old (one yr ago). MY SON, NOT HER SON died believing that I, his doting and loving mother HATED him and wanted to always get rid of him. My mother was very toxic with me and both of my half-sisters. She constantly did her best throughout our entire childhood to pit us against each other and drive a wedge between us. My son was her first Grandchild and I was most certainly her scapegoat, always. She did the same with my boy and due to having no life experiences and wisdom of an adult, I stupidly allowed it. When I became a bit older, I FOUGHT IT, tooth and nail for so many years. Both of my half-sisters constantly did everything they could to make me feel guilty when I went NO-CONTACT, keeping both of my boys safe from her for months at a time. “Oh, she’s so old now, you can’t just cut her out”, etc. etc. She pitted my firstborn love of my life against me and drove a wedge between us. Filling him with so many LIES about me, conditioning and brainwashing him to believe that I was the enemy. CONTROL was a very dirty word to her. As a mother, she not only didn’t want or expect control, she had absolutely no desire for control. She did not know how to parent. We were her “friends”, not her daughters. And I, being the oldest was her biggest friend of all. I felt responsible for making her happy and not so lonesome during my entire childhood. She was so depressed and she was so lonely and she was so abused and she was so weak…” I am so weak”. That was her biggest and most profound, daily statement throughout… “I am so weak”. She was not a loving nurturing or even disciplinary parent. She left me with constant guilt and I vowed to myself that when I grew up, I would see to it that she had “friends“ and that I would make sure she was happy! I carried through with this internal vow, way on into adulthood, even all the while when she was pitting my firstborn son against me!! Because I would not allow for him to make his social life and friends his number one priority, because I was on top of his schooling, his grades, his sense of respect. She bought his alcohol, she gave him money for his drugs. she wrote to him in prison, “this is not your fault, it is your mothers fault that you are where you are“. Within the very last words that I spoke to her just 2 days after my son died, (my bio-mother), I told her that my biggest regret was that I had not EARLY ON moved far, far away from the very small town that we all lived in and allowed her ONLY TO HAVE supervised visits with my son BY ME on Holidays. Her reply was, “No, your biggest regret was Kyle and YOU KILLED HIM”. I could hardly breathe at that time due to the grief and loss of my son, I was unable to function and just wished and prayed for my own death, but these are the words that I stupidly got on the telephone and listened to from my own “ MOTHER”. I AM NOT ALONE in this horrendous saga caused by grandmothers, primarily. There are many other toxic mothers- turned grandmothers! I am not speaking of grandmothers who are kept from their grandchildren due to vengeance by a daughter-in-law or son-in-law. I am not speaking of grandmothers or even grandfathers who are alienated, unjustly. Please research toxic grandparents and the harm that they can do prior to writing such hurtful posts!
Of course there are some instances that do warrant such a cut off. But a disagreement, argument, or that sort of thing isn’t an excuse to alienate a grandparent. That falls under retaliation. The problem I have with the article is that it uses generalizations of behaviors that many could read as ‘toxic’ when in a case by case review, would not be. I was a Family Law legal secretary. I know to well how this sort of information can be misconstrued. A header at the beginning like, “the following behaviors MAY indicate a toxic situation. If so, seek the advice of a family counselor before going forward with alienation” … which is illegal.
Mom,
Is that you? Whew, I am glad you are finally researching toxic grandmas! Sadly, by your comments, you have shown you still aren’t capable of changing. And here I was hoping I could brag about my super mom, capable of changing herself around into someone I could be proud of. Oh, well. Maybe someday…but you aren’t getting any younger! Oh and while you are researching the subject of toxic parents, please also read about sociopaths and psychopaths, as they can share some traits!
And, alienation isn’t illegal when it isn’t alienation and is actually preventing your child from receiving abuse. A parent allowing such abuse to continue would be found unlawful. We have a duty to protect our kids from Momsters! Besides, lots of states don’t even have grandparents rights. If the grandparent acts like a parent and grandparent should, the parent(s) should have no qualms about the free babysitter!
Kitty,…
This webpage is about grandparents who abuse and misuse trust.
I don’t know about your case, really, or how this personally affects you or targets you specifically. There is nothing that says “Kitty Wu” on this article. At all.
This is about people suffering abuse and control from their parents, subsequently manipulating their own children as a tool of abuse and manipulation.
Personally, I find these ten listed traits to be abhorrent.
Would you, personally, accept all of these ten bad treatments from your parents and have your kids being used as pawns?
I know about Filial Piety and Kongfuzi’s philosophy. But Kongfuzi is not the only philosopher in the world.
Nobody is above right or wrong. Even wrongdoings of relatives must be called out for.
Respect is mutual.
Trust goes both ways.
Kitty wu, how dare you even come up in here and advocate for the continual abuse we have suffered!! My whole life I didn’t know what it was but this give me clarity and now we can try to move forward with out lives and get help. My mother took me to court and got that weekend and I have video audio recordings of her abuse!! All my relationships suffered because of her.
You are the problem here, obviously this must hit a nerve for you. We know that the narcissist is likely to never change, Maybe you feel this way because you are one.
You should be ashamed and you should take a look at your own life. If you have an emotionally stable living situation, good for you and be thankful because not all of us are as fortunate and we sure as hell would probably trade anything to have a healthy stable loving relationship with our parents.
Thank you for this article. Some of your readers sound like my own narcissistic mother. She gets 10 out of 10 on the toxic scale noted here. Her devastating mind games with my then very vulnerable adult child got her shut out not only because of that, but that it brought up memories of my own abuse I had repressed for several decades. Trying not to blame myself for repressing my own mental abuse so I could have protected my children was pure hell. She brainwashed me to believe others had done it and that she rescued me. PTSD flashbacks have proved that to be a lie. One particular act of physical abuse is still repressed some because when I’d get to the part where she ugly scarred me for life I’d breakdown uncontrollably and disassociate for days. I no longer care to retrieve that memory. I went no contact several years ago and the only regret I have is not knowing to do it 30 years earlier. Mothers who have willfully damaged their own children do not deserve to be grandmothers anymore than they deserved to be a mother.
If you are going to choose the route of no contact then you might as well make a turn and go right back to your toxic parent and give them a dose of their own medicine. When you ignore them that’s when they win.
They win because they’re able to freely spread lies about you to the family and people in your home town. Don’t be scared of them, face your fears, give them the same verbal abuse, psychological abuse, as they gave you. Don’t give them the same physical abuse they give you though, I don’t want to see you arrested.
You will feel much better when you give these evil wicked toxic parent a taste of their own medicine. In fact tell your children the truth. Say grandma lies all the time and she never admits her fault. Grandma loves manipulating people and she’s also very toxic, don’t believe me son? look here’s how she does it.
Show your little ones the truth. What’s the point in having no contact when all that does give your parents more room to disrespect you and lie on you.
That is simple mathematics and the laws of nature that can never be broken. this is the formula. (-12) – (-15) = 3. 2 negatives minusing each other will always equal a positive as long as the 2nd number is greater than the first. You are the 2nd number. You are the -15 in the formula. You have to be more toxic to your parents than they were to you and maybe they will realise and wake up to what they did. You can’t reason with these mentally ill people because they just won’t grasp anything that’s normal . They won’t understand your perspective if you talk to them like a normal person. Whatever verbal or emotional abuse they gave you, give it back to them 2x.
They called you ugly, stupid, dumb as a child? Tell them they are horrible parents who aren’t worth shit and don’t have a clue on how to raise a child. Insert stupid idiot in there if you want.
So they decide to contact ppl in your home town to tell you how ungrateful you are? Call those very same people and tell them how much of a shit mother she was. Tell the truth now. I’m not telling you to lie on your mom like she’s lying on you, tell those people the exact truth without an exaggeration.
This method is better than the no contact. These people are sick in the head and the only way to battle them is with the truth multiplied by 2!
TheAnswer is frankly the most direct way to deal with toxic inlaws and such.
Being quiet and reserved doesn’t work.
I tried it for years.
Just made me more irrelevant.
Better is to ensure the toxic grandparent is made fully and painfully aware of the situation they caused.
Never let up.
This is terrible advice! Make yourself worse than them? Yeah, that will fix it! Not. All that will do is give them more ammunition for spreading lies about you- only, it won’t be lies! You really will be the horrible person they say you are!
In fact, anything you do will be used to make you look like a terrible person. No contact means they get no new ammunition, no new stories, no new lies. They loose because they can no longer affect you.
I’m having a very hard time with my MIL. I’ve been married now for 11 years and I have 3 children with my husband, my husband doesn’t see the toxicity with his mom but my side of the family does. We have recently moved out of state and I’ve noticed how much better my marriage has been and my own self as well, my own kids have said that I’m happier ( which makes me cry ) because if my MIL is affecting me this bad why can’t my husband see that my mental health is important for too
using parents or family for all these poor people who are nothing more than controlling and themselves they call others is very sad, and should be ignored .who in their right mind want to even have them in their life. its just destructive to their children who in the end will grow up the same
I am having a lot of problems with my daughter and her husband. I am 73 years old and I live alone. I have no idea how often a grandparents should be allowed to see her twin 7 year old grandsons. She is my only child and they are the only grandkids I will ever have. I only live 30 miles from them and can drive my own car. Her husband called me and yelled and cursed at me because he said he came home to find my daughter on the floor, crying. He said I had been trying to manipulate her for years. I read the text to my sister and she said she didn’t think I was being mean to my daughter. My brother said that I never should have told her what my neurologist told me which was, after meeting with both of us, he came away feeling that my daughter didn’t have “a heart” for me. I also told her that I also felt that way some times.. I have been in a nursing/rehab center for 2 months. She hasn’t come to see me a single time. She did pick me up and took me to her house where she “fed” me and “let” me play with “her” children. I had a great time, playing with them and 2 of their friends, laughing a lot. I’m lucky to get to see them once a month. I try to tell her how I feel about that. I love them all so much. I hate that her husband is so angry with me and it makes me feel that things will never get better between us.
my advise, as much as you love your grandchild .go away and live life to the fullest and be happy in your late years. it works I know
I am the grandmother, I feel like I’m always having to walk on egg shell when it comes to my son and daughter in law. If there is an argument over anything the first thing DIL says is “we won’t be back” Every time!! I love my 4yr old grandson and 14 month granddaughter but it doesn’t feel good when you hear that . I almost feel like walking away myself. Can’t keep letting my heart be hurt by their decision. I am a very active grandparent, they allow the kids to stay over, they come over a lot. Talk with them everyday and FT, DIL initiates it as much as I do. I pay for all parties, pictures and most meals when we go out to eat. So I do a lot for them and mostly because I can and do it because I love family time. They disciple differently and undermine each other daily. My grandson has bad behavior and yes needs structure and discipline at times. I feel like their not on same page and this is why he acts out. But when he’s at my house and acts out I get blamed for his behavior and they say he doesn’t need to come over, if he would be disciplined properly, they don’t make him take responsibility for his actions. Yes I may not keep my mouth shut at time when it come to discipline but they are around me a lot and I should be respected and be able to discipline them. Always hear “these are our kids” which I know. If not then I don’t need them to be with me and this is something I’m struggling with.
Then my son starts saying what we did wrong as parents and how horrible we were and need to look at ourselves then it becomes an argument . This just happened tonight! So as of right now I’m on punishment and my grandson ask for me daily so I know he will be hurting. I’m not this bad grandmother or controlling parent. I do r believe I’m toxic either. I just need a little advise to help me deal with this and maybe give me some guidance on what my move should be,
Your daughter doesn’t have a heart? Sounds like to me from your post that you have indeed tried to manipulate her for years. Your daughter would not say that if it weren’t true. It is human nature for a daughter or son to want a good, sound and healthy relationship with their mother/their children’s grandmother. There simply is not any grown child that dismisses their parents and their children’s grandparents without cause. You write, “ I have no idea how much a grandparent should be able to see their seven-year-old twins grandsons”?!?! Let me tell you how much you should be “ ALLOWED”…ZERO TIME if that is what your daughter has decided because they are her children, NOT YOURS!! You had your opportunity with your daughter and most likely even with your grandchildren. You screwed that up! Somehow and someway and probably in many ways, you screwed that up, Ma’am. What your neurologist told you? Just wow. Not your psychiatrist and not your psychologist, your neurologist??!! Oh, believe me …your daughter has a heart. Obviously, she also has the good sense to know that you are not good for her children. She “let” you play with “her” Children? Do you really understand and realize how stupid you sound? When you were raising your daughter, was it your right and your prerogative to “let” people play or be around your children? They are her children. They are not your children. Consider yourself damn lucky and very fortunate to see them once a month. In my opinion, just based on your post, IF I were your daughter, you would NEVER see “my children”. They are “her” children, NOT YOURS!
I hope so much that you get to read this post!
Wow! Completely rude and way off point! Sounds like you are a child that blames everything on your parents! As an adult you need to take responsibility for your own actions. Your giving really bad advice and being extreme
I my thoughts are it sounds like the daughter’s husband is controlling and probably emotionally abusive if not physically. He wants the mother out of the picture. She doesn’t sound like a bad mother or grandmother to me at all! Your missing very important signs. Isolating away from family, he has been verbally abusive to the mother. I have a bipolar daughter who just had a baby. The boyfriends mom doesn’t like me based on my exs wife’s running her mouth. They are besties . I dont go to to his moms house where they live because they don’t seem to want my 3 and 6 yr old there and I always get the unwelcome vibe. You can feel it when someone doesn’t like you. I have to either go there or invite them to do sonothing to see my grandson. This really hurts my feelings. My abusive ex and his wife get to watch the baby and the other grandparents watch him as well. My daughter has even showed up at my house twice without the baby when they have come to hangout with my oldest son. My daughter is 17 and I want her home, the baby even has a room here versus they are living in a 3 barn 2 ba house with a total of 6 adults and 2 newborns as his 27 yr old sister has a baby too. They have been pushing me out from the start. Hes 23 and she’s 17 . My husband and I told them both they were not to date as he was too d for her. My ex didn’t like him at all, they met at work. The bf is my son’s best friend. Now my ex and his wife just love him and are besties with his parents. His mom only knows their side of the past which of course is all blamed on me.
My father physically abused my mother in front of my daughters and my mother who enables his behaviour told my eldest daughter not to tell me about it. That was enough for me – I grew up with physical/emotional violence and I knew I couldn’t have my children exposed to this and to the message from my mother that it is ok for a man to hit you! Mother has since passed away and we are no contact with my father. Your list resonates for a variety of reasons.
Shayun,
I am at a loss for words. It’s so sad that kids can be exposed to either direct physical violence, or to witnessing it. Both are extremely traumatic. You did the right thing! I’m so proud of you. You had the strength to not only survive violence, but to break the cycle and to protect your kids when they needed it.
Parent or no parent, no one has the right to hurt your kids, and get away with it because it’s “family.”
Sincerely,
Lana
Thank you Lana for the encouraging words. It is not easy going no contact – my children don’t have grandparents and my younger sister who acknowledges the violence etc still has contact so our family is now split. At Christmas my sister goes to my father’s with her husband and we have our own Christmas just my husband/2 children (my husband’s extended family are overseas). Still – I can’t accept this issue and continue the cycle so I try to stay strong as you say. Your website is helpful thank you.
Shayun,
you did something very courageous: you stood up to the abuser. You said: this is not OK. This is unacceptable. Not everyone can do that. Your mother couldn’t do that, may she rest in peace. Your sister couldn’t do that.
I know this is hard. When you go no contact, typically that’s exactly what happens – a family becomes split. Or, worse yet, because of the hold a toxic person has on other family members, cutting ties with them essentially means cutting ties with the whole family. You might even be harassed by other family members who try to force you into a reconciliation with the abuser…
I think it’s OK to be sad about not being able to spend Christmas with your family…And to mourn the loss of your father, because it is a loss, even if he was abusive. I went through this too. I mourned…not so much my father, but the idea of a father I never had. I know the pain never goes away completely, but it eases, especially if we’re able to forgive.
Sincerely,
Lana
Shayun,
You did the right thing and the worst thing you can do to an abuser, force them to see that people don’t always come crawling back. Sometimes the victim leaves for good. To add about what you said about your daughters – not only do they see that it’s not ok a man to hit them – but you also avoided them mentally attributing abuse to relationships. Many women who are victims or child abuse or saw domestic violence in the home will grow up to be violent themselves and quickly resort to violence when they don’t get their way or are confronted about wrong doing as a way to deflect.
Very insightful article. However, I question the advice to seek family therapy with a toxic family member. Marital therapy might help a couple deal with limiting contact when the abusive person still holds their adult child in a state of Fear, Obligation, and Guilt. But if you go to sites where communities provide mutual support for those dealing with toxic extended family members, the advice is to never go to therapy with someone who is already abusive. You’re only giving them ammunition to hurt you.
Hi Lauren,
you make a good point, and I’m sure in many cases that is true – therapy with a toxic person won’t help. But I think in less severe circumstances it can be helpful to sort things out, especially with a therapist who’s experienced in dealing with toxic/narcissistic personalities. Besides, it’s one of those things you have to try before you can say: I’ve done everything I could, so I’m moving to the next logical thing.
Your daughter doesn’t have a heart? Sounds like to me from your post that you have indeed tried to manipulate her for years. Your daughter would not say that if it weren’t true. It is human nature for a daughter or son to want a good, sound and healthy relationship with their mother/their children’s grandmother. There simply is not any grown child that dismisses their parents and their children’s grandparents without cause. You write, “ I have no idea how much a grandparent should be able to see their seven-year-old twins grandsons”?!?! Let me tell you how much you should be “ ALLOWED”…ZERO TIME if that is what your daughter has decided because they are her children, NOT YOURS!! You had your opportunity with your daughter and most likely even with your grandchildren. You screwed that up! Somehow and someway and probably in many ways, you screwed that up, Ma’am. What your neurologist told you? Just wow. Not your psychiatrist and not your psychologist, your neurologist??!! Oh, believe me …your daughter has a heart. Obviously, she also has the good sense to know that you are not good for her children. She “let” you play with “her” Children? Do you really understand and realize how stupid you sound? When you were raising your daughter, was it your right and your prerogative to “let” people play or be around your children? They are her children. They are not your children. Consider yourself damn lucky and very fortunate to see them once a month. In my opinion, just based on your post, IF I were your daughter, you would NEVER see “my children”. They are “her” children, NOT YOURS!
I hope so much that you get to read this post!
How can u say that a grown child would ever in anyway dismiss there parents , you see it happening all the time , not sure what world your on , but it can’t be this one , that was a ridiclious statrment
Wonderful post! We will be linking to this great article on our site. Keep up the good writing.
What do you say to a child who ask, ” lf grandma and grandpa were so bad, then how come my brother and I were allowed around them?
Hi Vic,
it’s a personal choice how you communicate with your children so it’s up to you how you explain this matter. If you’re asking what I would do, my policy with kids is maximum honesty. It depends on the age of the children of course, but if they’re older than 6-7, I would tell them the truth.
I find it amazing how the grandparents on here (or however is defending them) are trying to plead their case with how inhumane it is to cut them off, but seem to pay no attention whatsoever that everyone on here has clearly TRIED to make things work only to have sulky selfish grandparents reject attempts because they have selfish needs, then eventually forcing our hand to cut them off. These grandparents are bulldozing forcefully into their kids’ lives without even entertaining the idea that they may be doing more harm than good, or that just maybe they might be in the wrong. These grandparents refused to make amends because they think they are gods and their children are useless at parenting! They underestimate the damage and destruction they cause to the parents of their grandchildren, ultimately hurting the grandchildren in the process. Sometimes we even have our children turned against us by selfish sulking immature grandparents who would poison their grandchildren’s minds (eventually being the SOURCE of the child’s heartbreak and pain – but they’re blind to that). EVERYone on here who has cut off grandparents, have done so as a last resort so don’t judge! I’ve tried everything and have had nervous breakdowns just for the sake of my kids having a relationship with the grandparents only to be treated like dirt, and blamed for their own miserability. The grandparents who are open to discussion are not the problem here, we’re talking about narcissistic ones who have agendas and think grandparenting is some sort of competition, game, or entitlement. Saddest part is, ultimately they cause their own demise, and off course in the end… blame us for that too. That’s where after trying hard to let them see your point of view trying to get them to understand, you get to a point where nothing works, they don’t even try to listen, so we’re forced to cut our losses to at least try to lead some sort of a peaceful family life. Amen.
Mona,
I can feel the pain behind your words. I believe you. I know you’ve done everything in your power to avoid cutting them off, and that you’re ultimately looking out for your children’s best interests. I think some people here might not understand what a narcissistic or toxic personality is really like. They do hurt everyone around them; it’s just their nature. Some cases are more severe than others. And the worst part is, children do love their grandparents, no matter how bad they are. And they miss them when they’re not around. As parents, we have to make some difficult decisions to protect our kids. Good luck to you! Peace )
Amen!!
I don’t bulldoze my way into my children’s or grandchildren’s lives. In fact, I keep a healthy distance as I realize it is their life and I have mine. But when you send a package, many times, and don’t even get a response that it arrived and weeks later have to ask. Or call, text and don’t get a response much of the time and then are told, “we’re so busy, we have hobbies, etc…” and you are the one who makes the effort to visit several times a year to take the brunt off your child, Or you are slowly hearing less and less from the grandkids who used to call you on their parents phone themselves all the time – as did your child once upon a time but they don’t anymore, and you know they are spending quite a bit of time / calls with the other two sets of grandparents, etc .. and when you question any of this, you are accused of taking things too personally, not contacting them enough, not initiating enough, etc … When you actually are … who is being toxic then?
Lana, thank you so much for this post!! I can’t thank you enough really. I struggle constantly with my narc parents and trying to maintain boundaries while still allowing my toddler to have a relationship with her grandparents. I’m leaning more towards no contact with every visit but it seems more plausible we’ll have to stick with holiday and birthday visits due to our very small town and everyone being friends with everyone else and especially the other grandparents. It’s so tough and I’m even a therapist who has worked with a lot of other people recovering from narcissistic relationships! I know I’m lucky in that respect and I have a lot of resources and knowledge to help me but that doesn’t really make it easier to navigate the manipulation and guilt around boundaries and distancing. So I really really appreciate you. Thank you for posting this information to help those of us in the trenches remember that we aren’t overreacting on the days we’re feeling a little too gaslighted and need it the most. And thank you For making a great list to share with spouses!!! (And kudos to you for handling all the Narcissistic comments.) ❤️
Tara
Hi Tara!
Thank you so much for your kind words 🙂 Every family finds their own balance. Holiday and birthday visits seem perfectly reasonable in your case.
I know what you mean though! For some of us no contact is not an option so we have to find a way to manage a relationship with a narcissistic person (or people) without losing it. And no matter how much you know, you still get triggered sometimes, or gaslighted, or manipulated. If both of your parents are narcs, you’re dealing with an even heavier load.
You must be an incredibly strong, compassionate woman. No one survives growing up with narcissistic parents unscathed. But if you’re in a counseling profession, you must have found a way to turn your pain into growth, and a vehicle for helping other people. You go girl!!!
Sincerely,
Lana
This is a great article. However, you referred to the grandparents as “old”, lol, well not today’s grandparents. And that pic you have there of an elder, that is more like a great-great-grandparent. Grandparents are in their 30’s, 40’s, and 50’s ….these days. Some are still partying, some are still chasing after men…and some are more toxic than elderly.
Thanks! That’s a great point. A toxic grandparent doesn’t have to be “old.” It’s anyone who exhibits toxic behavior towards their children and grandchildren. But I’m not necessarily equating “toxic” with “elderly.” It’s just a general representation most people are familiar with. And if anything, I think the tendency nowadays is for grandparents to be older because women have children at an older age. I had my first child when I was 35. My mom had me when she was 27. My grandma had her first child at the age of 18 so…
Wow, what a toxic reply!
I have a friends daughter is going through this. The other grand mother only spends time with the Granddaughter and not grandson. I see it as abuse. She only buys xmas for the little girl. She has her own room at her house, she only posts overwhelming posts about the little girl. Has even gone to court to secure her time with just the little girl. This woman is sick to me. I don’t even know how the courts ignored the fact that she is alienating the boy. Not to mention super separation of all parties.
I don’t know what the work is for this but it is all wrong. My friend is the other grandmother and she has no money to fight against the system. Very sad to me. Young parents and the grandmother is dividing and conquering. Courts have helped. Sick and twisted.
In what state did she have rights as a grandparent if the mother is stable and fit? That’s unusual.
Wow! **VERY sick and twisted!!** There are very few states that view grandparents as having any rights at all, legally. Don’t know what state your friend is in, however the other grandparent is most certainly abusive. There are so many free legal aid and child advocate organizations that can help your friend. Feel free to email me and I’d be happy to help. Bree. Nogle. [email protected]
Fantastic article! After dealing with such a severly npd mother, E. Father and N sibling for 34 years I’m finally no contact for over 2 years. It’s hard to watch you’re own children manipulated and set against you….. But luckily I have kept cool and made sure they know these toxic signs themselves. No contact dosent mean the constant abuse is over….. They will always slander and send in the flying monkeys. But now I’m not around them when they play their game……. I’m out and refuse to give much of a reaction. Narc monster and GC sister are some of the most angry and bitter women I’ve ever met. The damage they have done to my middle daughter and her mind (nans GC, NS dosent have kids… She hates them) is truely twisted and sickening. They have divided siblings and set them against each other… Running down everyone…. And ofcourse my gorgeous girl will bring it all back and tell me. She returns with nothing but her narcasistic nan and aunty’s opinions And behaviour traits… and the vile cruel opinions become hers. They did choose my most vulnerable child it hurts to watch as they attempt to twist and mould her into them. Heartbreaking. Also choose my toughest child who is very vocal. Took the big strong fiesty GC and turns her regularly against myself and her dad and four other siblings. Apparently she’s just like my NS…… ???? Monster mother exclaims…. Who’s actually her twin! And as deeply narcasistic. My poor child….! We are out of their game…. But she’s been sucked in and nanny and NS uses her for drama and to encourage gossip, slander and trouble THROUGH HER. so sad to see these npd individuals doing this. Can only hope my daughter eventually has an awakening. They encouraged her out of control too and encouraged pure hate and disrespect through her….. To us… As soon as I refused to allow myself and other children to be bullied… It got worse. Over two years later…… I still hear the filthy dirty slander they do, as it comes through my daughter. So sad. Ofcourse the only vulnerable child I have who ofcourse is the only one who is…. easily manipulated! I’m so glad to have no contact, can only hope eventually she also realises and follows through too, her npd nan has already attempted to destroy our relationship by running us down and making up lies….. All because I’ve slammed the door shut and called her out on her sickening behaviour (no one else would do). My father passed recently its been hard with mixed emotions knowing he enabled her behaviour (everything evolves around her or it isn’t allowed full stop.) I’m angry with him still. They were super narcasisticly behaved and such selfish parents… I’m glad I have time for my kids. I encourage freedom and them to grow into the individuals they want to be. Their feelings are mega important and so are their opinions. My experience with the terribly Npd family… Has made me a way better mum. My mother is everything I NEVER want to become. I can’t even look at my reflection because I look like her it makes me physically wretch… I’m always analysing deeply…. Her behaviours… And panicking if I open my mouth and hear her voice come out. So sad these things were allowed to give birth, but I have broken the chain and so proud to have done it. Much love to anyone else going through it. It will get easier….
This Xmas she sent the GC (my daughter) back with Xmas presents to open in front of her four siblings….. ???? Yes… It is also their nan ???? only one child won’t see her, and a few see her but not regularly (her choice she can’t ever be bothered, never could be) all were not bothered by this…. As they are used to it.. Happened on my youngest daughters birthday too… Invited my son( on my youngest daughters birthday) and sent him home armed with gifts for Himself… Ignored the birthday girl… These are deliberate spiteful acts of the narcasistic nan… When you say.. You can’t bully me goodbye! They will manipulate the children… To bring home their dirt. Twisted individuals who will never change. No contact is the only way with an Npd parent/siblings.
Your post resonates with me so much. Singing to the choir…
Due to my diabolical, sinister and evil mother that I stupidly allowed contact with my son for 36 years, I lost him. I not only lost him to death with him believing wholeheartedly that I was the evil one, I lost him and he believes that I hated him!!! Because of my wretched, wretched mother that did not know or give one good f**k about raising her own children.
My goodness, I wish I could get on a very large platform and have my experiences with this very same situation to go viral and even in a documentary, if possible. I would advise, over and over with any grandparent that is not supportive, kind and loving towards the children’s parents and their decisions to go…NO CONTACT!!! NO CONTACT!!
I learned the hard way. If only…
Bree,
so sorry for your loss. It sounds like you went through so much pain as a result of allowing your toxic mother to be around your son. I also feel like you have a lot to say on this subject, and you’re just aching to share your story. You should. It doesn’t have to be a large platform. You can start small, like with a blog. Having an emotional outlet like that can be extremely healing, and it can help others, too. No one should suffer through what you’ve suffered.
Peace,
Lana
I agree. The parent has control over when the grandparent sees the child. There is no need to deny the relationship altogether as many are doing, often for trivial reasons. My own parents ticked every box in this article. I decided to keep them in my children’s lives. At my Father’s funeral both children spoke describing a lovely and very different relationship to the one I thought they had.
I was denied contact with a grandparent myself. As a child I suffered agonies over this. Meeting him was a highlight of my life and I feel I was robbed of what would have been a very loving relationship.
By all means set terms. Let them have the kids for limited periods or only in your presence. Allow letters and birthday cards.
Unless there is a risk of harm to the child cutting significant people out of their lives such as grandparents is now deemed child and elder abuse by a growing number of psychologists and a lot of adult children are using no contact not realising they are using their child as a weapon.
One day the child is of age to seek the grandparent themselves. Finding out they were denied an imperfect grandparent may put the relationship with the parent in jeapordy. A friend of mine was denied contact and the moment they could both children walked away from their home and went to live with granny.
Set a time and place for contact if you must. Set your boundaries and return the puppy or whatever. But do not cut the tie completely. You too are a flawed adult. You may see things wrong.
You can explain to your child what is not OK. When they are of age if it really is not the child will make up their own mind.
Teach the children to respect the grandparent but explain the values you hold. If they are good values then the children will not lose them by having contact with even hopeless grandparents.
One day you also may see things different and be glad you have a parent who,for all their faults cares about you.
Witheld
What a magnificent reply. Beautiful put. Vital advice for everyone reading this article.
Bless
Yes, This was indeed a magnificent reply. It was not however vital advice for “anyone” reading this article. This article speaks of “toxic grandparents”. http://www.toxicities.com
?????
I agree with everything that you wrote in your post. I don’t believe in any circumstance that an adult child should keep their children from their grandparents and use them as a weapon. There are however so many very evil and diabolical grandparents who wish to, set out to and accomplish annihilating the bond between child and parent and usually this comes from the grandparent never having any parenting skills with their now-grown children, at all. Sure, this subject is discretionary.
This is such a horrible article.. such a sign of the new generation thinking its ok to cut someone off even if its family. Family is about love and culture and lineage and not having to be perfect to be accepted.
I accept imperfect people. I don’t accept abuse and bullying. My mother in law has bullied me for 12 years. I quit responding the past 3 yrs and it hasn’t stopped. Now she’s being mean to my 10 yr old…..her granddaughter and my husband….her son. That’s not love!
It’s very difficult to deal with the aftermath of toxic grandparents. My children have been emotionally hurt. It’s hard to see them in pain. This is a subject many people do not want to discuss, because we all want to assume extended family cares for what’s best for the children. I wish I knew more people who have gone through this to see that there is healing and hope. For now my family is pushing through.
Thank you so very much for writing this…
The struggle of living with these things is obscenely real in my children’s and my space…
My mother has lived with my three kids and I for the past 5.5 years. She has mental and emotional health issues and was unable to live by herself a handful of years ago due to being suicidal with ideation and I told her to come home. She is constantly questioning, undermining, criticizing and negating they my authority in front of and or to my children directly. She complains about my parenting methods to me in front of my children and anything else she can find to complain about or comment about from the sidelines, she feels absolutely free to do so. She has complained about any and all relationships I have been in, previous to her arrival and since. And makes herself out to be the victim, whenever I stand up for myself or when she says some kind of blanket statement in general about me or my children in or around our space.
I feel somewhat guilty feeling the need to get her out of my house, especially given the kind of mental/emotional health issues she has. I myself have had to seek treatment for depression and anxiety, for my own issues and as time has passed, realized that I have CPTSD not only from being raised by her, but also from having her in my space for so long. I find it really sad that I have to partially medicate myself in order to feel able to “deal” with my mother. Sanity is priceless though, heh. I plan on beginning the exit process with her within the next year or so though, because when it comes to my children…my goal is to raise them in a childhood that they don’t feel like they need to recover from, like I did….and her being in our home, well, it’s counterproductive to the goals I have for my children.
My mother is toxic to me and has been for years. She has always overstepped with her views and how we parent wrong because she doesnt want to follow our rules and feels like she is being controlled .. she feels entitled to have them over her house 2-3 times a week and sleepovers just because and call during the week to speak with them.. we implemented last year that she can see them once a week at her house and we no longer want sleepovers as its unnecessary and there is no reason for her sleeping in the same bed with both kids .. she will bring this up every few months demanding that we let her and we stick to our guns and say no .. so then she will starts verbally abusing my husband and me and has once in the past came to attacking him and me which we then made her seek anger management before seeing our kids again which took her 8 months becsuse she felt it wasnt necessary and there is nothing wrong with forcing her way into my home and laying hands on us. And my shove out the door was the problem and not her and I need to seek help. Ive decided that as for myself I cannot tolerate this any longer and do not want a relationship with her .. My kids love her and I don’t want to end their time together but I feel like she then attacks me through them because they always have secrets and has family harrass me at work and online and will get my father(split up) and brother involved always under the guise of ‘but shes your mother you only have one’. My husband has been over her drama years ago because she holds everything over our heads as for what she has done for us or has bought the kids. Are we justified in not allowing contact for ourselves and limiting exposure to our kids? I had a new baby this year (5 months ago) and he has health issues(breathing and choking) and she wants to take him over her house during the day and ive said im not comfortable with that and she says she has rights to be a grand mother and spending time with him .. I honestly do not even want him involved with her as she has only caused us grief with our older children (6&8) through the years. I just feel defeated because everyone is against us if I chose to cut contact and feel like alm grand oarents should have access to see the kids. Thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks for your time.
Hi, Lana, I feel so outraged, after, years of discard and abandoning, my narc parents wants to stake claim on their grandkids, again this sense of entitlement, coming to my house unannounced, out of the blue, pretentious display of affection, they have this ability to play victim, make me look like bad guy, smear me and scapegoat me for everything that is wrong, they pin it on me, so, I have no contact with these toxic individuals, what ry hurts is they give not a damn about me but how they can get their rights to my kids, they have selected the golden grandkids to be the offsprings of their golden child, my brother, so I am not even missed or cherished but they now want the attention from my innocent grandkids whom they have stalked over facebk, Instagram, they have Discarded them for so many years and now my npd parents want to recruit them for their selfish attention, there is this awful power play but bottomline, there is No love at all, what shall I do? I am so sad already and desperately trying to heal from my own abuse by them
Thank you for this article. I made the decision months ago to remove my kids, and myself, from my mothers world. Her addiction to perscription medication took hold a couple years back, but she is no longer a “functiong” addict. Her reality has been completely distorted. She constantly says terrible things to me, and recently, to my kids. She wont accept help now, but told her I am only willing to talk in therapy. I don’t have much hope she will take that path with me. Anyway, I know I have done everything I can, but the guilt is huge. Your article made me feel better, just when I needed it.
I have a mother in law , who raiser her son ( my husband) with her narcissistic behavior. As we started to create our own life, he then noticed his mothers behavior was toxic. We then add our little guy into the picture and her narcissistic claws came out even more so! We have learned to love her from afar because her behavior is not healthy to not only us but out son as well.. She recently asked my son who is 4 years old “who is the prettiest grandma?” & Who is his favorite grandma? mind you he has 3 grandparents. I put a stop to her and will let her know each and every time that we don’t allow that behavior from her. I will not subject my child to that behavior . It is very hard to distant yourself from family but for your sanity it is worth it.
I have been searching for answers so maybe someone here can guide me in the right direction. My mother which she is 73, lived with my older sister for almost 30 years. My sister had 2 boys,(single mother) in which my mom helped raise. I have 2 children also, all children are grown now. My sister passed away last Christmas from cancer and I have brought my mom to live with me and my husband. My oldest nephew is 27 and a meth head. He was still living with them when my sister passed. I won’t let him live with me. He has been in and out of jail with my mom paying the bail each time and on a fixed income. I believe my mom is obsessed with him. We have found out she may have cancer now and most days she seems ok, but if there is ever a day that she don’t talk to my nephew she gets physically ill. She cries, she calls him and demands him to call her. He has finally got a job and is due back in court in January. He has a paycheck but she keeps trying to spend her money on him. My other nephew has a son and won’t bring the baby around if my other nephew is here. And my mom does not seem to care if she sees either one of them or my kids for that matter as long as she sees or talks to her oldest grandson, the meth head. What can I do about her obsession? Or am I just seeing too much into this. Any help.
Yep, I am going through this with my parents right now. My son is 7 years old. Me and my wife had a difficult time at the beginning and yes, I did ask them for a lot of help. At first it seemed like they was just helping out of the goodness of their heart. I always told them I was grateful. However, after time progressed they started holding things over my head. At the age of 6 my son started wanting to go to the other grand parents house. I was letting him make that choice. After all he should be able to pick a little bit sometimes. That’s when the problems began. Showing up to the house on weekend unexpectedly because they thought he was going to want to see the other grandparents. Trying to have lunch (behind my back) with my son at his school, to influence his choice of where to go on the weekends. I recently put a stop to it. Just cut them out completely and told them you don’t respect me and my wife as parents. You don’t really care about anyone else, you got your head lodged in a place the sun don’t shine. You don’t need to be in MY sons life until you get your head right.
Can anyone give me some advice as to what to tell our 4 year old? We’ve decided to cut ties and I could really use some healthy/intelligent input as to what to tell him about not seeing Nana and Papa anymore 🙁 thanks for your time
SG
SG,
This is tricky…Here’s one psychologist’s advice: “If they [children] want to know what happened it is important to be open and honest and then let them have their own experience when they are old enough to choose.” So basically, be honest, but explain it as simply as possible.
From a Psychological perspective it seems you are deciding what’s good for the parent not the kid. Kids are very vulnerable and that should never be forgotten. Sometimes parents let there un happiness stand in the way of doing the right thing for there kids. Cutting family out of your life is very extreme and harsh but is your choice it should be considered after professional counseling
There is nothing you can say to your daughter. You are taking a positive thing in your child’s life and trying to make it like it doesn’t and never did exist. If your child is 4 and has built a relationship with her grandparents it’s a bond you will never break.
It sounds like you are hurting your daughter because you are not happy. I hope it’s not to late for you but her uncles, aunts, cousins even grandparents shouldn’t have to be affected because your not happy. It’s called sacrificing for your children. Ask your daughter if she wants to see her grandparents ask her if she has fun with them ask her if she loves them, if she says yes then you are doing your daughter a big disservice.
It’s never to late to make things right. I hope you do the right thing for your daughter.
READ IT AND BELIEVE IT
Ask your daughter if she wants to see her grandparents ask her if she has fun with them ask her if she loves them, if she says yes then you are doing your daughter a big disservice.
It’s never to late to make things right. I hope you do the right thing for your daughter.
Best of luck to you
You don’t believe that a child could be manipulated into liking or loving someone with NPD? Good grief: even adults are manipulated into it.
If you believe it is better in the long run for a child to be emotionally abused by someone with NPD than go no contact, I think I can take a wild guess where you land in the spectrum.
OMG, my mother ticks every box!
I cut off all contact with her to protect my kids. She was calling them 4, 5 times a day and if they didn’t talk to her every single time, she told them they didn’t love her and she would only give christmas-gifts to the one that talked to her. When my son got bullied, she took it upon herself to threaten the kid that bullied him. while explicitally asked her not to and let me handle things my way. The school complained that she was continuously telling parents to back off of her grandson.
After I cut her off, she litteraly went door to door in my social circle to tell them what an ungratefull child I was, after she had done so much for me.
She even interrupted a funeral to tell my family on my fathers’ side(she’s divorced) how she couldn’t see her grandkids. She called the police on me, sued me, calls me a bad mother, stalks the children on school field trips. No contact really was the only option and if you can’t, never let children alone with them so you can correct their manipulative behaviour. I tried relationship therapy but she walked away from it, saying she did nothing wrong. She’s just incapable of seeing things any other way than hers.
Singlemom72,
that’s very typical for toxic people. Even though therapy helps a lot of people, toxic or narcissistic people are very resistant to it because they have a hard time admitting that they did anything wrong, or just seeing things from a different perspective. Then no contact is the only way. Stay strong, you did what was in the best interests of your kids!
Lana
How about my situation where a grandparent wants to spoil my relationship to my own child? I have a 16
year old daughter. My mom has told me since the beginning that my daughter is a “problem child”, difficult, mean or even narsissistic. She constantiy points out how smart, nice and well behaving child I was and compares that to my daughter always telling me how “difficult ” person my daughter is compared to me. The worst part of this is that it took me years to even notice this! She really made me feel that my completely normal child is in some mysterious way really difficult.
I am divorced and share the custody of my daughter with my ex. When I divorced my mom told me I should give up custody because I was too weak to deal with such a difficult child and it would be easier for me to give her away. Thank God I did not believe her!
But I have always thought that my mom just wanted to protect my wellbeing, that she was worried about me or my health (I had serious health problems when my daughter was smaller) and that was the reason for her behaviour. But now I understand that she wants to keep me to herself, she wants to be more important to me than my daughter.
The first person who made me see my mom”s behaviour is not normal is my current husband. With his help I have started to see how my mom manipulated me against my only child for years! And she is still doing it! She keeps telling me that my daughter is not as intelligent as me or as beautiful as I was when I was 16 etc. She NEVER tells these things when my child or my husband is present, she only manipulates me when I’m alone with her. I have a lovely, smart, beautiful daughter and there is no reason my mom should be talking about her like that.
I am still having hard time understanding this whole thing, since I’ve always had an image that my mom is the most loving and caring person in the world. That she is a super mom, the best parent one could have. This really turned my world upside down.
Susie,
I understand how hurtful it is to hear your mom speak that way about your child. Even though she’s sort of being nice to you, she’s putting your daughter down and speaking of her as if she was just a nuisance, some pale imperfect version of you. Needless to say, it’s unacceptable. It needs to stop, even though she’s not doing it in front of her.
I agree with your current partner. Your mother is exhibiting narcissistic behavior. It sounds like you’ve had a very close (i.e. enmeshed, codependent) relationship with your mom and grew up idolizing her. Your mom’s always been #1 in your life. But when you have a child, your child becomes #1, and it’s normal. Your mom has trouble accepting that. She sees your daughter (her own granddaughter!) as competition for your attention, another contender for her “narcissistic supply” (you), that used to belong to her entirely. So she tries to “eliminate” her by badmouthing her to you.
My question is: have you ever expressed to your mom how that makes you feel? Have you asked her to stop? I think it’s something to consider.
Thank you so much for your answer! I think you are right about my mom seeing my daughter as competitor. And you are also right about the fact that I need to talk about this with her. I never told her straight and honest how I feel. It is really difficult for me because as you said, I have been too dependent on her. My father died 20 years ago and my mom never remarried, so that probably made things worse. Your answer helped me see things and our relationship more clear.
My daughter does not like my mom that much, so she has probably seen there is something wrong with her behaviour. Thank God the other grandparents are normal, loving and caring people.
My mom also refuses to have contact with almost everyone but me, and she never meets my daughter alone, never calls her etc. She actually keeps telling me that she just does not like company and she is not a “social person”, but she still wants ME to keep her company. She doesn’t even want to meet her own siblings or other relatives, neighbours, or even my brother, her own son! Just me. I visit her once a week. So you are absolutely right about me being the “narsissistic supply”.
Maybe it is better to protect my daughter from my mom’s narcissistic behaviour and not take her for visits at all.
I cannot believe it took me over 40 years to realize my “perfect mom” is narcissistic! This makes me really sad, but at least now I can start to deal with the situation and I can protect my child.
Luckily my husband is being very supportive with this.
I’m sorry for you, the way you like to just say cut people off. These people are family, grandparents human beings.
Do you not have love for family and.other people that maybe dont see everything your way?
It appears to me you are a very controlling person that doesn’t value family more then friends. Life is to short. It also seems you also hold alot of resentment.
I hope.you find happiness in your life
Thank you Steve! It’s sweet of you to wish me happiness after insulting me.
To your point, I don’t ever advise cutting people off. It’s a personal decision; one that nobody should take lightly, and as I say in the article, one that should be reserved for extreme cases, after everything else failed. Peace )
You seem to be subscribing to the idea that, because of the genetic lottery, a person is entitled to certain treatment. I disagree with that entirely.
We choose our friends. We do not choose our family, but did you ever stop to think WHY you choose your friends? Because of their personality traits (assuming you chose wisely). Emotional abuse and NPD is a serious matter. It echos through generations. If you expose your child to an abusive person, you failed in your responsibility to protect them . You have diminished their chances to be a healthy well-put-together individual. They may pass this on to their own children, should they have them.
Grandparents are not entitled, legally or otherwise, to see their grandchildren. It is up to the parents to make that decision. Sometimes, the parents are wrong in choosing “no contact,” but from my experience they generally are not. It is a hard decision to make, but in 90% of cases it is made because of abuse from a parent that they wish to not expose their children to. Unfortunately, most parents do not make the hard decision when necessary, though, and it perpetuates the cycle of abuse.
I’ve been close to my 7 yo granddaughter her whole life, Her parents never minded her staying with me all the many times she cried or when she cried to stay—-So when now 7 yrs her whole demeanor has changed and I can’t get her to spend the night and I am heartbroken, That does not mean I as m a narcissist it means I’m a grandmother who had a relationship with her granddaughter she misses, parents don’t allow your mother to get close to what she sees as a little you when YZiU aloud it , grandparents get very attached I font go against her parents and I certainly don’t try to take there place but still have a little compassion- there watching how you treat your mother and Zkatma will come Round. Some of you clearly don’t inderstAnd how much children need grandparents
To the author: Are you ok with destroying families from your “toxic” article?!
TOXIC appears to be the latest buzz word in our society. My understanding is that clinically diagnosed Narcissism and Toxic mean the same. Dating an asshole is different than a family member “mistreating” you or being a narcissist. I’m not suggesting,”just brush it off” if a family member is being an ass, but what ever happened to love, patience, and maybe, just maybe, there are problems on both sides that could benefit a resolution rather than running away?
Families have a great opportunity to learn from each other and GROW in maturity. Tossing a relationship to the curb ends that opportunity and so many others within the entire extended family..What ever happened to talking something over and firmly stating boundaries?” How about family counseling?A “transgression or two may be ok but after that Grandma is toxic, cut all ties” WHAT!!!! Wouldn’t some grandchildren be concerned that the parent may reject them just like they did Grandma?!
I’ve had to cut family members out of my life because they WERE” Toxic” In my case I should’ve done it much sooner. What does toxic mean to me? After many years of trying different ways to get along, including avoidance, I was very clear and set a firm boundary. That boundary was crossed and I followed through with no contact. The Toxic family member couldn’t handle their game ending so upped the ante and lied to a judge. I paid my attorney$15,000 to let the family member know I wasn’t going to continue with their game..
M,
I think you misunderstood me. I don’t recommend no contact, and I believe I make it clear that it’s a last resort when all else fails. My message is to empower parents to put the wellbeing of their children first when there is a family member that is clearly *and repeatedly* causing them psychological harm. In so many cases people put “family harmony” first, downplaying the damage, not wanting to rock the boat or simply being scared of confronting the problematic family member. Abuse is abuse no matter where it comes from. In fact, in most cases abuse takes place within the family.
Oh my goodness, this is my mother-in-law! She is completely manipulative & a covert narcissist who plays the victim to elicit sympathy. She lavishes my children with gifts (even though I have told her not to), has decorated ‘their bedrooms’ at her house in a completely over the top way & tries to constantly win their affection during her secretive whispering to my children even when I’m in the same room! She has no respect for my boundaries, if I say no to her she will try her hardest to get her own way & if that fails she resorts to sulking.
The biggest problem I have though is that my husband cannot see any of it & thinks she is some kind of saint, as she raised him and his brother as a single parent for his early childhood, so they have a very, very close relationship. It would be impossible to go no contact but I do try to limit our visits to her & also ensure that I am always there to keep her manipulation to a minimum.
Sarah,
your instinct is absolutely correct – limited or supervised visits, and continue to set boundaries, just make sure you communicate them clearly and there are consequences for when they’re ignored. But I know all too well that it’s easier said than done…
As for your husband, I understand why it’s difficult or even impossible for him to see his mom clearly. Being raised by a narcissistic single mother is a minefield you don’t want to get into…Any attempt to question his mom’s sainthood – boom! Explosion. If he’s ever going to see her differently, it’s going to be on his own time. But I’m guessing her love and approval mean too much to him to ever take a side against her.
Thank you. Yes my husband is the ‘golden child’ in his family but he still desperately want to please her and gets the silent treatment on the rare occasion that he doesn’t dance to her tune. It’s only recently that I’ve come to realise his lack of self worth & constantly doubting himself all stems from his upbringing. He is so bad at decision making because he was never allowed to go against his mother’s wishes.
She has actually messaged me tonight asking if my children can go to hers for a sleepover next weekend. I really want to say no but I’m scared of the problems it will cause between my husband and me…
Sarah,
I understand where you are coming from. It took my husband until our oldest was about 6 months to get that his mother’s behavior was out of line. Until she was a year to try to set boundaries without being able to have consequences. At this point we agreed on no interactions with our daughter until we could take step forward as adults. Now our oldest is 2 1/2 and he and I have seen his folks 3 times in the last year and a half. We just were blessed with another daughter and nothing has changed, in regards to his parents, they still want to go around us to get to our children. My husband and I started going to see a pastor to repair the damage this has caused in our marriage. I am grateful that before he was able to see it or stand up for me, I still stood up for our family and child. Once he did see it, it was, is, his choice to have no contact for me and our children. His contact has been very limited. So, don’t sacrifice your children for temporary peace in your marriage. It’s challenging, but can you have a deep, meaningfulmarriage when this issue is between you? Find supportive people who will be honest with you and believe you, you will need them.
Firstly, great article.
If a parent is hopelessly negligent (eg drug addict) or abusive to the children then it is ABSOLUTELY the place of a grandparent to bring this to the attention of authorities and work towards gaining custody,
HOWEVER, If a parent is doing their job (kids are happy, healthy and in school) then the grandparent has no place trying to dictate any terms or demand anything from the parent. The parent only needs to consider what is in the best interest of the children, not what the Grandparent ‘Wants’. Don’t try to appease or cater for a demanding grandparent. Put yourself and the children first, always.
Grandparents don’t have an automatic right to access the children (nor do biological parents). The only right that is important is the right of the children to live in a safe and stable home, this is the most important thing to consider.
If a grandparent has a track record of harassment to a parent that is doing the right thing and looking after the children as they should (by societies standards) then the grandparent is putting their personal own interests ahead of the best interests of the child/ren by bringing instability stress and anxiety into their families lives.
The first action of a parent in this instance is to tell the grand parent to ‘STOP IT’ and explain the harm they are causing. If they refuse to stop, cut ties until they come to their senses (this might be an indefinite period). Make sure you keep a record of all the instances of their harassing behavior too. The most important thing is whats in the best interest of the children. Remember that.
If the grandparent is truly toxic, unfortunately they might attempt legal recourse. In this instance do not attempt any communication with them & seek legal advise from a qualified family law firm. Avoid any approach from them to directly communicate with you (ignore them & block their number, unfriend them etc. but keep all written information they send you), This is why it is important to keep a records of their harassment towards you.
Talk only to loved ones that support you and your position and avoid talking to those that don’t. Hopefully you can resolve your differences without it coming to drastic measures but always remember, you are the parent, not them.
To the ‘Author’
Sorry, but are you an expert on this subject? If so, what is your degree? Seems to me you are the problem and maybe, just maybe your communication skills need attention.
How dare you write this one sided article.
What exactly is your opinion of psychological harm? A grandparent longing to spend more time with their grandchild when they are missed and not only for the parent’s selfish reasons?
Have you ever considered the grandparent’s point of view?
We are not your babysitters when you want to work and save money on Child Care.
We are not obligated to get you out of debt.
We are not obligated to look after your children when you want a night out.
Everything you have described in your article is one sided.
I am certain, you have no love of family and no respect left for those people who did their best to raise you with the best of their knowledge.
Sometimes, it is the parent who is toxic and a complete control freak who makes the decision to remove a well-meaning grandparent only to be resented by their adult children years later for not allowing them to know what it feels like to have the love of a grandparent.
I hope your children do the same to you one day if you’re ever lucky enough to be a grandmother.
Pull down this article. It’s pathetic !
Classic narcissistic speak! These remarks in response to this article is a PERFECT, CLASSIC, SCREAMING RED FLAG of a narcissistic grandparent! Most likely a Grandmother! You have no one to blame but yourself if your child denies you access to your grandchildren!! YOU LIE, MANIPULATE AND THEN PLAY THE VICTIM. There is a reason that someone can be CRAZY, and yet not meet the standard of innocent by reason of mental defect. BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU SAY (LIES & MANIPULATION) AND DO IT ANYWAY! That is EVIL PERSONIFIED! Now go sit in the corner and think about THAT!
Everyone, please read the below paragraphs. This is typical language of a narcissist. It is intended to saddle with guilt, and I have no doubt she has used this on her own children who are probably damaged now. I know this language well.
“I am certain, you have no love of family and no respect left for those people who >>>did their best to raise you with the best of their knowledge.<<>>only to be resented by their adult children years later for not allowing them to know what it feels like to have the love of a grandparent.<<>>I hope your children do the same to you one day if you’re ever lucky enough to be a grandmother.”<<<
This article and similar articles are very dangerous to our families. Our young, uneducated, and some with mental illness are overreacting to the content!! It causing horrible problems with families. Horrible. Just horrible
For someone who hasn’t been in such a situation, it’s so easy to think that way. However, for someone like me who has undergone psychological stress because of a toxic grandpa, then cutting contact would be the best solution. I actually cut out regular contact 2 years ago. Currently, I visit him less than thrice a year. For this, he’s beginning to see his faults and slowly changing on how he addresses me. This saved me from too much stress which isn’t good for anyone’s well being.
To think what way? I absolutely agree that sometimes no contact is the best solution.
Maybe you should practice what you preach. Unless you were being abused by someone on drugs alcohol or stealing from you. you need to be a better person. Show up enjoy your time together and go home
Robt, either you’ve never experienced a relationship with a toxic person, or you ARE the toxic person.
Drugs, alcohol or illegal activities are not the ONLY reasons to cut someone out of your life. A lifetime of being treated bad, called names, lied to, lied about, being undermined all the time, having a person treat you like you’re too dumb to breathe, always being gaslighted, dealing with very hateful personalities, etc., etc., are all good reasons to cut ties with someone. EVEN if that someone is a parent/grandparent.
It’s impossible to “show up enjoy your time together and go home” with people like that!!
Thankyou for this article, my husband and I were dealing with this situation with all the above ticked. We ended up having no choice but to cut contact , as soon as we did the guilt messages came flooding in. That’s when I knew we made the right decision.
English mum,
unfortunately, sometimes no contact is the only choice, and a brave one at that. You did the right thing.
I never heard of people deciding to cut grandparents out of grandkids lifes because they dont like the gifts they give, the grandparents house is to much fun for their kids.
Did YOU PARENTS ever hear of communication. Maybe put yourself in the grandparents shoes. Work it out.
If they are using alcohol, drugs sweating not using car seats that’s a different story.
Life is to short sometimes we need to work at making things right. You dont just cut all ties for things that can worked out. Especially if the other kids and grandkids dont seem the same issues. When your the only one seeing all these problems maybe you should look in the mirror
To the lady below the article making comments about spoiling your grandkids and giving them as many cookies as you want to give them etc…you sound like a real bitch and a true narcissist! Caring about what you want to give your grandkids and not about what’s best for them does not benefit them. This was a very well balanced article. Have some boundaries please. So glad you’re not the grandma of my children! I feel so sorry for your children!
Long story hard to shorten. I have lost so much.
My mother who is in her 80’s have convinced my 3 children who are grown things that are not true. Enough for them to cut me out of their life. Without giving me the chance of a trial I have been found guilty in their minds. 3 grandchildren will not know their grandparents and my heart is forever broken.
I know life could be worse. But this is my story. So much more to the story. It would make Dr. Phil’s head spin!
OMFG ???? Literally the checklist I made of my covert narc mother right before I removed her sorry ass from my circle. Going no contact with her immediately eased my anxiety that up until that point I hadn’t related to her. My relationship with my kids has strengthened immensely, my eldest (11) actually said, “I think you made the best decision” which blew me away because Granny had always been a provider of limitless gifts, very special days out with no expense spared and she also has a super cool house with an attic just for kids and a hidden crawl space right throughout the house which obviously is far more appealing than home. Needless to say his wise & compassionate stance on this matter felt like a degree of closure for me. Hardest decision ever. Literally by far the hardest. But toxic is toxic regardless of who it is and especially when children are involved, it’s vital to put on brave boots and let go of whatever insults your soul & theirs.
Kizanne,
well put! Toxic is toxic. Children are more perceptive than we give them credit for and your eldest is a great example! You’re a brave and wise woman, and I admire you for taking a stance for your kids.
My 11 year-old said she wanted “no contact” with my mother after we moved. It was a very toxic environment, her house. She’s co-dependent 20+ years on her crackhead boyfriend who treats her like trash and shows up after being out on the streets and living with another woman for weeks, months, at a time. He didn’t show up for New Years, so she took it all out on us….covered the sockets with duct tape so the kids cant charge their tablets. Hid the pots and pans so I cant cook for the kids, body shames my 9 year-old who is normal weight for her age, took the cord off the microwave, treats my niece better than my kids and keeps her holed up in the room with her 24-7. She’s constantly walking around with a grudge and an attitude. However, this isn’t new. I’ve witnessed this behavior from her since I was a child.
Can i ask you what to do when my Mother says things in manipulation to my child and then puts added pressure on her to say Dont tell Mommy i said this or that ex. Were buying a pool to be installed this summer she is mad because her place has a big in ground pool at the clubhouse shes trying to talk my daughter out of having her own pool because shes upset tgat my daughter may not want to swim there as much if she has her own also in the past if my Mother and I argued shed bad mouth me and tell my daughter not to tell Mommy ive had to struggle over everything haircuts dr appointments flu shots dentist pictures Portrait studios etc my Mother had to be at everything which overshaddowed my motherhood all my childs life i missed out on handholding on trips my Mother was happy to be the one while i walked behind them our relationship has been desimated over the years over her narcisistic behavior blaming me of not including her if my child and i do something or because my child didnt call her or doesnt want to sleepover anymore its been 9 years of fighting with me over everything as if she forgot i am her daughter the love warmth and affection has rested on my child while she became volitile with animise and detest for me and everything about me i am furious she is guilting her about the pool what can i do i dont want my daughter keeping secrets from me or being told by my mother not to tell me im so exhausted and can only imagine the guilt this put on my daughter. Please help any advice?
How do you combat a covert narcisstic grandfather that has successfully schemed custody of your 2 year old girl? I totally figure out and no one wants to even consider my countless facts are true. Now she is being isolated from and I know the abuse has begun. I am feel like I am dying knowing she is in his control.
Joseph,
that’s a difficult situation. I don’t know enough about this case to really give advice. The only 2 things that come to mind is hiring a good lawyer and meticulously documenting every instance of abuse you’ve witnessed. Document EVERYTHING – text, emails, verbal communication. Basically, if you want your daughter back, you have to prove to the court that the grandfather is in fact abusive.
I know a Grandpa who is always saying to his grandkids,” You do not even love me do you.” . Fine I do not love you either. Why does he do this?
Yes, at its core it’s a subtle manipulation. He’s saying that if you (or don’t do) certain things, it means you don’t love him. I don’t know whether or not it’s intentional, maybe not…
What if the parent has untreated mental health issues and their accusations are based on splitting and dissociation and your grandchildren are suffering? What if part of the mental illness is triangulating friends and family members including the granchildren against the grandparent? What if the parent historically isnt capable of a healthy relationship and everything she says to and about the grandparent is projection of how the parent thinks and feels but is not reality? And how does an article like this help when it can be used as a weapon against all grandparents when “Toxic Grandparent” isn’t a professional term and doesnt address if the parent has a mental health issues? Saying something about someone doesnt make it true.
Hi Emma,
you make a valid point. However, I can’t address every possible scenario in one article. Can this information be used against someone maliciously? Yes, probably. But everything you read or experience is subject to interpretation and, unfortunately, we can’t control how other people interpret or experience our words. I’m sorry if you were labeled “toxic grandparent” unfairly but it’s equally unfair to blame me for it.
Sincerely,
Lana
I totally agree, when the parent has mental health issues such as BPD and they spiral out , split and dissociate, their perception of reality is totally different. A grandparent can be doting, however the parent will resent that and perceived that the grandparent is under-mining the parent authority and say the grandparent is toxic. If the grandparent is loving, the parent will also have an dissociative memory that the grandparent never loved them as much, and feel this it is abusive.
this is not to say that all grandparents are good or bad, the world is full of both, but you need to see the big picture. To me this article is very one-sided, and toxic, either black or white, no room for grey. Some grandparents who love their grandchildren will need to go the legal route to have a relationship with their grandchild, especially if they have been the the constant, stable environment since the child was born. It does not make the grandparent toxic or wanting control.